[MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization

[Thomas Lund]

Hi Bob,

No problemos. I don’t merely accept a -14 LUFS target with Album, but originally suggested it, based on a pilot study :-)

cheers,
Thomas

> On 15 Mar 2018, at 18.10, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
> 
> Spotify Giving more than one option is bound to be confusing for the user and ultimately a mess for mastering engineers trying to communicate ONE MESSAGE to our clients.
> Secondly, regardless of the Cenelec issue and the low headphones issue on cheap devices we have to hold our ground. Advocating -11 LUFS at any point is a real problem sonically and a real compromise sonically. There has to be another solution and we must NEVER EVER advocate -11 LUFS. It's a stupid idea and cannot be rationalized away. 
> 
> Even Thomas accepts -14 LUFS with album normalization, so let's not cross that line in the sand. And to repeat: -14 without album normalization is unacceptable also. So we need to know whether Spotify has album norm.
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/8/18 6:26 PM, Grimm | Eelco wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>>> Another interesting Spotify thing though - two people have emailed me to say that their latest iOS versions have three different normalisation choices:
>>> 
>>> Loud (-11)
>>> Normal (-14)
>>> Quiet (??)
>>> 
>>> I don’t see it here yet, though.
>> I checked it with my Spotify contact. He wrote (please keep it confidential):
>> 
>>> Yes, this is indeed true! 
>>> Loud is -11, Normal -14 and Quiet is -23.
>>> 
>>> Default is Normal, and will remain so, don't worry!
>>> 
>>> The thinking here is that we can cater to the three different use cases that we have identified:
>>> - The most common situation is that -14 is loud enough for users to be able to play as loud as they need.
>>> - Quiet, -23, is there for all those who actually care about the dynamics and want a really good experience - and, most importantly, they are either in such a quiet environment that they can deal with -23 or they have enough power (eg in a home hifi system) to bring up the volume sufficiently.
>>> - Loud is for those users (yes, we do receive complaints about this) whose earphones on their mobile phones can't give them enough loudness in the environment they're in.
>> So the good news that -23 LUFS is in! And that -14 LUFS is still default. But of course, our fear is that mastering engineers will take the ‘loud’ -11 LUFS as their target “just to be sure".
>> 
>> He also wrote that it should already be present in the current app. I updated my app to the brand new 8.4.43 but still don’t see the options. Maybe they’re not shown in the Spotify Free app? I check it with him. 
>> 
>> The whole discussion triggered an idea that I shared with him. Let’s hope he gets enthusiastic and that we can get Apple and Google on board with it (I know it will be quite difficult…). It goes like this:
>> 
>> I thought about the Cenelec requirements for smart phones in the EU: the special noise signal of -11 LUFS is not allowed to play louder than 100 dBA on the ear buds. Let’s say the device is limited to this level. If we normalize that test file to -14 LUFS, we attenuate it by 3 dB. It will now play to max 97 dBA. Apparently that leads to complaints at Spotify, and legally one would indeed be allowed to play 3 dB louder. There are two ways to solve this:
>> 1. Set the target level to -11 LUFS. This is Spotify's current ‘loud’ option. The disadvantage is that the normalization target is raised and mastering engineers may use that as a reference. 
>> 2. Let the Spotify app signal to the OS of the phone that normalization at -14 LUFS is engaged. The OS can then offer 3 dB extra gain to audio from the Spotify app and still comply with Cenelec. If the ref noise is played with normalization on, it will have a max of 100 dBA. If normalization is turned off, the OS will not offer the extra 3 dB headroom and again play at 100 dBA max. 
>> 
>> The beauty of the second method is that you may also choose a -23 LUFS target and still play equally loud as a non-normalized app...
>> 
>> Fingers crossed…
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Eelco
>> 
>> 
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> 
> -- 
> 
> If you want good sound on your album, come to
> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
> Author: Mastering Audio              
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