[MLA] AES71 comments

[Bob Katz]

Well, without metadata I don't see a good solution :-(  I only see 
conflicts.

Bob



On 6/4/18 5:36 PM, Kevin Gross wrote:
> I would estimate that about a quarter of this standard is explicitly 
> about portable devices and applications. We should also expect the 
> trend of stationary application becoming portable to continue. Your 
> cell phone or tablet is your OTT box in increasing cases. My 
> daughters' generation watches most of their TV and listens to most of 
> their music on portable devices. I don't know where the cart is but 
> the horse is out of the barn.
>
> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com 
> <mailto:bobkatz at digido.com>> wrote:
>
>     Dear Kevin: We are all aware of the conflicts involved. I
>     occasionally read the AGOTTV5 reports but got lazy about it, my bad.
>
>     Since this is primarily intended for OTT boxes and portable has
>     not been mentioned, I hope there is not a big conflict. Music will
>     be turned down to -23 in the OTT boxes. Sooner or later we will
>     have to address this, but until metadata is standardized it's
>     putting the cart before the horse. I'm concentrating on helping us
>     get music streaming services in line, and then eventually we'll
>     have to reconcile things, but until metadata is standardized I
>     doubt we can solve the conflict with a document other than
>     recognizing that a conflict exists.
>
>
>     Bob
>
>
>
>     On 6/3/18 5:17 PM, Kevin Gross wrote:
>>     I don't know if any of you have been following or working in the
>>     AES's AGOTTVS initiative. This group is working on loudness for
>>     over the top (OTT) and online video distribution (OVD). They have
>>     produced a standards document that will come out for public
>>     comment soon as AES71. The recommendations are reasonable -
>>     produce, transmit and use metadata where possible, use BS.1770
>>     with -23 or -24 LUFS target.
>>
>>     There is, however, a large portable aspect to these topics and
>>     the line between OVD and music loudness is not very crisp
>>     (YouTube is everyone's favorite music streaming service). In
>>     these cases the -23 LUFS is at odds with the -16 LUFS
>>     recommendation in the AES TD1004 recommendation. -16 LUFS does
>>     appear in the AES71 draft in what appears to be a "not to exceed
>>     under any circumstances" specification.
>>
>>     Aside from the potential problems connecting these
>>     recommendations, I see problems with a -23 LUFS target for
>>     portable applications. We've discussed limitations of portable
>>     devices and environments here and I know we don't all agree but
>>     we have seen evidence that this is not loud enough for certain
>>     hardware and situations and regulations.
>>
>>     AGOTTVS did do some experiments on this and the findings were
>>     that were that -23 didn't work for everyone in all scenarios and
>>     that more testing was needed. I don't know how they got from this
>>     to a -23 recommendation, but they did.
>>
>>     As an officer in AES standards, I have reviewed the draft and
>>     submitted some comments to clean up some definitions and other
>>     inconsistencies and underspecification. I'm not sure how to
>>     broach the subject of an unrealistic target level recommendation.
>>     I was hoping someone here could talk me through or talk me down
>>     from this.
>>
>>     Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>>
>>
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>
>     -- 
>
>     If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz
>     407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering
>     Audio *Digital Domain Website <http://www.digido.com/> No trees
>     were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
>     of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>
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-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio *Digital Domain 
Website <http://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.

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