[MLA] from the trenches...

[Kevin Gross]

Bob, do you think these mixers are aiming for actual loud or for something
that just sounds loud (bright and crushed)? I asked because there's a mixed
message here when they complain about loudness normalization which does not
change the character of the sound and can be defeated by manually adjusting
the volume control.

If they want actual loud, maybe we can work on adding "suggested playback
level" metadata to recordings. I don't expect this would actually work and
it would likely get ridiculous quickly but it might also be educational and
it might relieve some pressure to crush.

Kevin Gross - AVA Networks

On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 7:32 PM, Bob Ludwig <gatewaybob at mac.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the encouraging words, Eelco!
>
> Best,
> Bob L
>
> On Jan 9, 2018, at 7:27 PM, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I very much pity you. But also your artist.
>
> From another viewpoint: at least he is aware that Spotify applies
> normalization. He says it sucks but he cannot do anything about it. I
> always said that normalization will not stop people from crushing their
> masters. The main goal is to offer a plain playing field so people who
> don't crush their masters will sound equallty loud (or louder). The artists
> who really love the crushed sound with 'the better brightness' can just
> keep on demolishing their art - and that's fine with me.
>
> But to be their mastering engineer must make you seriously ill, I am sure.
>
> The good news is that in the indie world many people are picking it up
> already. At my school all the current students want to learn about making
> dynamic mixes and masters at the moment, and a good friend of mine (a
> talented mix & mastering engineer) never has to master above -13 LUFS for
> about a year now because of Spotify...
>
> Take care,
> Eelco
>
>
> On 9 jan. 2018, at 22:27, Robert Ludwig <gatewaybob at mac.com> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> As is so often the case now, I’m mastering an album where the mix engineer
> has premastered it for their client’s “listening references”  SO loudly,
> and the client expects me to at least match it.
>
> By far, for me the loudness wars are the worst they have ever been and now
> it isn’t so much the artists or A&R, it’s the mixers themselves.
>
> I’m doing this new album, the engineer sent me his crushed “listening
> refs” and his “less compressed mixes”.
> In addition to matching his level (with hopefully a more clear sound), I
> also did one with *some* dynamics, about -1dB less compressed.  These
> were labeled “even louder” and “loud” !!
>
> Here is a comment I just got from the artist:
>
> "Between ‘skip rate data’ and being ‘loudness normalized’, Spotify really
> needs to give everyone a break. Jeez louise, soooo laaaaaaame!!!!!!!
>
> I don’t actually know what to suggest. Especially now I know that whatever
> loudness I want my music to be, Spotify are just going to turn my shit
> down. That sucks. I still have Bob’s “louder and even louder” mixes and
> I’ve always gone straight to “Even louder”, feels obvious, no? This is
> probably part of the reason why I felt what he sent most recently was that
> bit *less* impactful. To cut to the chase, I don’t want this music to
> exist at anything other than Bob’s “even louder” level. That gives it the
> better brightness too, for me.”
>
> This makes me ill…
> Bob L.
>
> PS. please don’t quote this any place, it will get back to the artist
> eventually.
>
>
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