[MLA] AES paper

Tue Jul 25 00:01:37 CEST 2017

Hi Kevin,

We can make it smaller, no problem. Cinema loudness is already covered at large in another workshop, so we can skip that for sure. I think the two most important topics are my Tidal research and a presentation from Ian or Bob about how to make optimal use of the new -14 LUFS 'standard'. The PSR meter can be a part of that. The AGOTTVS update can focus on podcasts or anything else that's relevant. Or alternatively Thomas may present something. We should indeed have a discussion about the best introduction talk from you, we will find something appropriate. Francis gave me the workshop chair names (Jonathan Whiner is one of them!), I will send them a message with you on CC. 

Cheers,
Eelco

> 
> The workshop I had proposed to chair was a bit different, smaller and focused on loudness normalization
> Your Tidal presentation
> Update from Bob Katz on streaming loudness recommendations
> Update from someone working in the AGOTTVS group
> Loudness normalization in cinema?
> I could do an overview introduction about loudness normalization touching on existing systems: Sound Check, Dialnorm, ReplayGain, BS.1770, R128, ATSC A/85
> 
>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 4:52 AM, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> Just to say that in theory I’d be happy to do a presentation with the title Eelco suggests, assuming I’m in NY at the right time. Currently my plan is to arrive late afternoon on Wednesday, and leave on Friday night. I’m already doing a short presentation on streaming loudness as part of Bob’s mastering workshop on Friday afternoon, so it will depend on timing, as well.
>> 
>> Ian
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 23 Jul 2017, at 23:29, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear Kevin,
>>> 
>>> You wrote about our possible loudness workshop during AES 143rd: "I can volunteer to chair it if that's agreeable to everyone." and since there is no time to loose, I love to accept your offer.
>>> 
>>> Since I did not know the name of the workshops chair and I could not find it on the AES website, I just wrote a message to the paper chairs Braxton Boren and Areti Andreopoulou to ask me to connect you and me to the workshops chair. In case you already have a direct lead to the workshops chair, please let him (and Braxton and Areti) know. We need to apply for a workshop time slot asap.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately I have very little time before I leave on holidays (Thursday). So I hope you all at MLA can help me a bit to assemble the framework of this workshop. The working title of the workshop that I have in mind is: “The Loudness War Has Ended, Now What?”
>>> 
>>> I imagine a program with the following topics:
>>> 1. My presentation about the "Recommendation for loudness normalization by Music Streaming Services" (like I did in Berlin)
>>> 2. "Mastering after the loudness war". Ian Shepherd could do this, or Bob Katz (I recall that Ian is not in New York all four days). NB Care should be taken that this topic has not too much overlap with the mastering workshop of Bob Ludwig, but I guess there's enough stuff to fill at least two sessions...
>>> 2b. Ian or Bob may show the PSR meters that Ian, Nugen, RTW and Grimm Audio will introduce during a poster session at AES NY. 
>>> 3. "Loudness normalization of Podcasts". Bob Katz, please let us know if you think this is a good topic for this workshop. I think the SC-02-12 discussion about a target level of -18 LUFS is interesting enough to share.
>>> 4. Thomas Lund may have a presentation, but we have not heard from him yet.
>>> 
>>> My presentation takes 30 min. Workshops are usually 1.5 hours. We should be able to fill that with high quality presentations.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Eelco
>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> If there is no music loudness workshop yet, I guess we should organize one. Chances are high that by October both Tidal and Spotify, and - who knows - Apple, are using album style normalization on by default. That would really mean the end of the loudness war and we need to celebrate that I guess. Topics could be:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. My Tidal research, showing why -14 LUFS and Album Normalization is the way to go for mobile (and lower levels in stationary situations of course).
>>>> 2. What does the end of the loudness war mean for music mastering? Ian Shepherd could do a presentation about "mastering after the loudness war", but I am sure Bob Katz can do it too. Care should be taken that this does not overlap with the mastering workshop of course. Bob Ludwig, do you have an idea about how to avoid that?
>>>> 3. We could show the new 'PSR' standard meter that Ian, Nugen, RTW, TC and Grimm Audio intend to present at a joint poster session in New York. 
>>>> 4. Maybe Thomas has some interesting topic again? You deserve to be on stage now things are finally moving. 
>>>> 5. Possibly an update about podcasts from SC-02-12. Perhaps a bit off-topic, but it is very interesting to see that they need a lower target level (-18 LUFS on mobile) for voice only...
>>>> 6. .... (please add proposals)
>>>> 
>>>> I am chairing a workshop on cinema loudness already, so if someone else from MLA could take the chair position, I would be glad...
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Eelco
>>>>> In other words, Kevin, a combined loudness workshop?  Thomas has run his "tribunal" many times in the past.... what would make it different from the panels he's run? Someone has to chair this workshop.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 7/20/17 2:51 PM, Kevin Gross wrote:
>>>>>> I would plan on publishing your paper at the European AES in 2018. We should give ourselves time to to a reasonable job of this.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Your presentation in Berlin was well received and I would hope the workshop chair could find a place for it in the NY convention as a tutorial or workshop. If we can find two other new 30-minute loudness presentations, that would make for a workshop. Perhaps Bob Katz or someone from his group has something to present. It is likely the AGOTTVS group could prepare a presentation on the state of their work. Should I contact AGOTTVS leaders and see if this is so?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Eelco, try to speak to the workshops committee right away....
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> When I know more about our meeting I'll let you all know.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 7/18/17 5:24 PM, Grimm | Eelco wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> And I invite you (Eelco) to read from that preliminary paper briefly at our streaming loudness subcommittee meeting we'll be holding. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I'd love to attend your committee meeting. Please let me know in time when that meeting will be.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Workshop? That takes a lot of preparation. Are you game for that? Needs tons of preparation, more even than reading a paper. And you have to interest the workshop's chairperson.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have a wonderful 30 min power point that I presented in Berlin and that needs only little updates. I guess the US audience would like to hear that too. But I do not know which workshop could host this presentation since I don't know the workshop program for this AES yet. Is there another Loudness War session? 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>>>> Eelco
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you want good sound on your album, come to
>>>>>>> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
>>>>>>> Author: Mastering Audio              
>>>>>>> Digital Domain Website
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
>>>>>>> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you want good sound on your album, come to
>>>>> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
>>>>> Author: Mastering Audio              
>>>>> Digital Domain Website
>>>>> 
>>>>> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
>>>>> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> MLA mailing list
>>>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
>>>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>>>> 
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