[MLA] Not either or

[Kevin Gross]

For listening at low levels or in noisy environments, we do need to talk
about DRC. Maybe track normalization is part of that discussion but it will
definitely not solve the problem on its own. Telling listeners track
normalization is for these situations is not very satisfying advice.

Unless/until we can justify and explain how to use a track normalization
mode, we should not be advocating that it be included in player
implementations.

If you want to do your own listening tests, no Tidal subscription is
required; Most players with ReplayGain allow you to choose album vs track
normalization. I use MediaMonkey.

Kevin

On Dec 12, 2017 8:02 AM, "Bob Katz" <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:

> I think that background listeners playing background music at low level
> would prefer track normalization. I would in that case as the softer tracks
> become non-viable.
>
> Given that I believe that Tidal listeners are more critical doing
> foreground listening, that track normalization is not as urgent a
> requirement as it would be with Spotify, Apple, etc.
>
> I have no idea how to tell listeners how to specify mode, but if I were
> trying to make life easier like Apple attempts to do I would not give them
> that advice, I would try to estimate what kind of a listener they are based
> on the SPL they are listening at. So some form of a smart player would be
> necessary. It's probably impractical to implement, but I can dream, if the
> computer uses its internal microphone to judge the loudness of the music
> being played versus the noise of the room, it could judge whether to use
> track or album normalization.
>
> Since that's currently science fiction, I have not easy idea on how to
> present the options to the user. No matter how you do it, it will be
> confusing. Beta test. Beta test Beta test. Refine. Refine Refine.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> On 12/12/17 10:34 AM, Kevin Gross wrote:
>
> You've read Eelco's paper right? Aside from the fact that album worked
> best subjectively for normal and corner cases, one practical issue is that
> if you include an album/track option for users you should explain what it
> is for. I'm curious what advice you would give to users on selecting mode.
> You say track normalization is better in some cases. What cases are those
> exactly?
>
> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>
> On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 1:56 AM, Thomas Lund <thomas at lund.one> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We have had some discussions after it became clear Tidal's system didn’t
>> support Loudness-normalization based both on Track and Album; so they are
>> stuck with the latter for now. If we jump to conclusions, more companies
>> this group is used to advise, may find themselves taking one step forward
>> and two backwards.
>>
>> For some applications, Track norm is better, for other applications Album
>> norm should be preferred. It’s bad advice to impose an either/or decision,
>> and in this case it might have ramifications for Tidal’s capability to
>> comply with certain requirements or new track search criteria.
>>
>> Careful and unbiased guidance in these matters will better stand the test
>> of time.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Thomas
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>>
>
>
>
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>
> --
>
>
> If you want good sound on your album, come to
> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 <(407)%20831-0233> DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
> Author: *Mastering Audio              *Digital Domain Website <http://www.digido.com/>
>
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