[MLA] Our Change.org petition

[Kevin Gross]

I have edited slightly and added your material to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness#Measurement

It would be helpful to have one or more references specifically on Leq(RLB)
and further development of BS.1770

Kevin Gross - AVA Networks

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Thomas Lund <thomas at lund.one> wrote:

> Hi Kevin,
>
> Here are some facts for the Loudness War article so the measurement part
> reflects what actually happened since 2000. I can add references and more
> details if you think it's worthwhile. There might be other places on
> Wikipedia where some of this would also fit.
>
> cheers,
> Thomas
>
> ***
>
> The foundation we’re relying on today for measuring digital audio is the
> ITU-R BS.1770 “loudness” and true-peak level standard. Work began in 2001
> after 0 dBFS+ level distortion in converters and lossy codecs had become
> evident; and the original Leq(RLB) loudness metric was proposed by Gilbert
> Soloudre from CRC in 2003.
>
> Based on data from subjective listening tests, Leq(RLB) was compared
> against numerous other algorithms where it did remarkably well. After
> modification of the frequency weighting, the measurement was made
> multi-channel (mono to 5.1). CBC, Dolby and TC did the heavy lifting with
> numerous broadcasters contributing invaluable listening tests.
>
> To make the loudness metric cross-genre friendly, a relative measurement
> gate was added. This work was carried out 2008 in EBU P/LOUD with Florian
> Camerer the dynamic chairman, and the improvements were brought back into
> BS.1770-2. ITU subsequently updated the true-peak metric (BS.1770-3) and
> added provision for more audio channels, for instance 22.2 (BS.1770-4).
> Today, BS.1770-4 is used globally to define Loudness Level, True-peak Level
> and Peak to Loudness Ratio (PLR).
>
> ***END
>
>
>
> On 07/12/2015, at 18.34, Kevin Gross <kevin.gross at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> MLA was founded as a technical expert group. Our work so far has been in
> education and engineering on loudness topics and normalization systems. The
> petition is a piece of non-technical advocacy and I don't know if I'm fully
> comfortable with that. It is possible my concern could be addressed through
> editing to remove some of the stridency. I would be happy to propose some
> changes if you're interested. But I respect comments from Thomas and Bob
> Ludwig and would like to see those addressed too.
>
> Incidentally, I am one of the editors of the
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war article. If there is a
> specific objection to something in that article, I would be happy to try
> and revise it.
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Thomas Lund <thomas at lund.one> wrote:
>
>> Hi Bob L and all,
>>
>> I second that. It was also not easy to defend the time spent and the
>> potential customer annoyance caused by engaging in this topic for >15 years
>> at TC, so kindly understand the tact and requirements needed for steaming
>> ahead as a group.
>>
>> best regards,
>> Thomas
>>
>>
>> On 07/12/2015, at 16.52, Robert Ludwig <gatewaybob at mac.com> wrote:
>>
>> HI Bob K.
>>
>> First, clearly I support this initiative, that is never in doubt.
>>
>> I re-read your original email where you wrote: "My proposal is that the
>> MLA become the named organization behind the promulgation of this petition.
>> ”
>>
>> Being that some of our members are in the trenches fighting the Loudness
>> battle in world-class situations, and being that our names are NOT being
>> signed on the petition, perhaps the MLA should NOT be the “named
>> organization” but “turnmeup.org”, your own Digido.com
>> <http://digido.com/> site or other.  It won’t change the impact of the
>> petition, in fact perhaps there is more engineer community awareness of
>> those sites than ours.
>>
>> What does the group think?
>> Thanks,
>> Bob L.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 7, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>>
>> Guys, Thanks for your thoughts.
>>
>> We'll look at some of your thoughts and see at least if we can improve
>> the links.
>>
>>
>> As far as the title goes. We are activists, passionate about our
>> position. This is a petition written by activists, designed to be put on
>> Change.org <http://change.org/> to get action. It's designed to attract
>> people to sign it. "Say No To A Streaming Loudness War" attracts attention,
>> gets the message across well and is in tune with the idea of what a
>> petition is supposed to do.
>>
>> Do you want this to languish in "We're not activists, we're just
>> apathetic engineers, so sign our petition if you care, but anyway, have a
>> nice day."
>>
>>
>> Be an activist. Support an activist title for this petition!
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob K.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN | "There are two kinds of fools,
>> Recording, Mastering, Manufacturing  | One says-this is old and therefore good.
>> Author: *Mastering Audio              *| The other says-this is new and thereforeDigital Domain Website <http://www.digido.com/>               | better."
>>
>> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
>> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.*No more Plaxo, Linked-In, or any of the other time-suckers. Please contact me by regular email. Yes, we have a facebook page and a You-Tube site!*
>>
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