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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/31/19 7:02 PM, Grimm | Eelco
wrote:<br>
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<div>Hi Bob,</div>
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<div class="">Right. AFAIK all tracks of an album are
attenuated with equal amount. </div>
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<p class="">That's ambiguous, it could mean several
things. Please rephrase.<br class="">
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<div>"If loudest track of album = -8 LUFS, attenuate all tracks
of album by 3 dB before encoding". <br>
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<p>Yes, now I understand what you meant. <br>
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<p class="">You're saying that half a cake is better than
none. I'm saying that if you have millions upon millions
of songs, getting it done right is a priority. So if
it's not right, keep working until it is, no
compromise. </p>
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<div>AFAIK Spotify is the only streamer who intends to apply any
attenuation before encoding. We should applaud them for that,
even if attenuation to -14 LUFS would be better than to -11
LUFS. </div>
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<div>That being said, what we could in fact recommend as an
alternative is that they attenuate to -14 LUFS before encoding
and then use the metadata to not just align to the low
loudness target (-23 LUFS), but also to the high loudness
target (-11 LUFS). In the latter case some clipping may
eventually occur, but the default -14 LUFS target will perform
better in general.</div>
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<p>There has to be an algorithm that would avoid clipping in those
situations. E.G.: If it would overload, then reduce gain. You can
point out that normalization by any standard (even LUFS) is not
perfect anyway, so a little error with some songs being 1 or 2 dB
soft is not a tragedy compared to clipping. <br>
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<div class="">I am not 100% certain that Spotify does
not apply positive gain and compression in #3, but
what I recall is: compression is only used for ‘Loud’
playback at -11 LUFS, and this compression is not
performed in the app, but stored on the server.</div>
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<p class="">I tagged you in a thread where Sigurd proved
using John Cage's "4:33" that Spotify upward normalizes
and peak limits all three targets. Though it would be
very rare to find something below -23 LUFS, that extreme
case proves that the algorithm is in use. <br class="">
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<div>You are right: so there is indeed upwards compression in
use at the -14 LUFS target. We should disencourage them from
that.</div>
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<p>Yes, upward normalization is naive. Way back in the day when
Dolby designed dialnorm people should have followed their lead,
and recognized the need for an attenuation-only system. <br>
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<p>Bob</p>
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<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<pre><font class="3D""" face="3D"Courier"">
If you want good sound on your album, come to
Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
Author: <b>Mastering Audio</b>
<a href="https://www.digido.com/">Digital Domain Website</a>
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.</font>
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