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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/31/19 1:47 PM, Grimm | Eelco
wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:E0B8A93A-2ECA-4CE9-A2D1-2B77634C1E38@grimmaudio.com">
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<div>Hi,</div>
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<div>Sorry for my absence, I was a bit busy...</div>
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cite="mid:CALw1_Q1c4vjyt5Mt8_EqEmAVSfUpxB2umSkhhF8MhWcV9CLfsA@mail.gmail.com"
class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">I think it means what it says,
normalize PCM audio to -11 LUFS. From which I assume,
stuff that is louder than -11 LUFS gets digitally
attenuated. Stuff quieter is untouched before
normalization. Loudness metadata is stored as usual so
that playback target can be adjusted. </div>
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<div>Right. AFAIK all tracks of an album are attenuated with
equal amount. </div>
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<p>That's ambiguous, it could mean several things. Please rephrase.<br>
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cite="mid:E0B8A93A-2ECA-4CE9-A2D1-2B77634C1E38@grimmaudio.com">
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<div>But mark that this is not yet implemented by Spotify. It is
part of their larger plan which also covers moving to BS1770,
using the loudest track of the album as anchor for album
normalization etc. They are waiting for td1004 for guidance -
if we are fast enough.</div>
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<blockquote type="cite" class=""><span
style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">"a
reduction on material that's >-11 LUFS" improves
encoding quality (subtly) for that material, but there's
plenty of lower material whose peak level would overshoot
the codec whose LUFS falls between about -11 and -16 and
occasionally below -16 so there's not enough forethought
going on here. If you're going to attenuate before
encoding in order to prevent encoder clipping then do it
right. </span></blockquote>
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Sure there is material < -11 LUFS that shows intersample
peaks and can overload a codec. But there’s much more material
> -11 LUFS that does so. If we can get Spotify to abandon
their -11 LUFS option, we may nudge them to attenuating to -14
LUFS before encoding, but I would not put my money on that yet.
And attenuating to -11 LUFS is better than nothing imo.<br
class="">
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<p>You're saying that half a cake is better than none. I'm saying
that if you have millions upon millions of songs, getting it done
right is a priority. So if it's not right, keep working until it
is, no compromise. <br>
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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:E0B8A93A-2ECA-4CE9-A2D1-2B77634C1E38@grimmaudio.com">
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<p class="">With Spotify I always need more clarification,
since Spotify's practice has been to upwardly normalize
for streaming. </p>
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<div>The ‘attenuate to -11 LUFS’ part just applies to albums
with loudest tracks louder than -11 LUFS (these are also the
ones that would otherweise clip the codec). Upward
normalization is only needed for albums softer than this, so
they will be encoded at their original level. </div>
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(Ian wrote):
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<div class="">I thought they would store 3 separate copies,
each hard-normalised to Loud, Medium or Soft, and then
streamed directly. </div>
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cite="mid:E0B8A93A-2ECA-4CE9-A2D1-2B77634C1E38@grimmaudio.com">
<div class="">I am not 100% certain that Spotify does not apply
positive gain and compression in #3, but what I recall is:
compression is only used for ‘Loud’ playback at -11 LUFS, and
this compression is not performed in the app, but stored on the
server.</div>
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<p>I tagged you in a thread where Sigurd proved using John Cage's
"4:33" that Spotify upward normalizes and peak limits all three
targets. Though it would be very rare to find something below -23
LUFS, that extreme case proves that the algorithm is in use. <br>
</p>
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<p>Most important for me is that Andreas was at our meetings and
likes to contribute and cooperate.</p>
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<p>Yes! And we need to keep him involved.</p>
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<p>Best,</p>
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<p>Bob<br>
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cite="mid:E0B8A93A-2ECA-4CE9-A2D1-2B77634C1E38@grimmaudio.com">
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<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<pre><font class="3D""" face="3D"Courier"">
If you want good sound on your album, come to
Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
Author: <b>Mastering Audio</b>
<a href="https://www.digido.com/">Digital Domain Website</a>
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.</font>
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