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<p>Doing mixes on spec is the worst kind of slave labor. You can
spend a day or more on a good sounding single mix, especially if
you don't lean on bus processing to mix it for you. :-)</p>
<p>I think that all the mixers should band together to stop this
"spec mix competition" nonsense. It can't lead anywhere good. The
A&R are loving it... they don't have to pay to get the workers
to do their work for them. And the loudest mix wins? Shit.... I
feel nauseous. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Bob K.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/9/19 1:30 PM, Robin Reumers wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:76E09C73-59A1-4C78-897B-AB275C91FF07@gmail.com">
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Hi all,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I know I totally have no right to comment on this
within the group, but I would love to share my personal
experience with this. Last year, I got to do a spec mix for a
well known Spanish artist. It got 5 Latin Grammy nominations and
1 Grammy nomination. 3 mixers were asked to mix 2 of the singles
on the album and then the artist / A&R / producer picked a
winner. I ended up not making it, but then I heard the mix that
won and I really wanted to understand what they could have liked
better about it.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">One thing is that his mix that he sent to the client
was about 6dBs louder (mine was around -13 LUFS). Mine already
had some bus processing on it, to make it compete, but I didn’t
want to deliver something at say -7 LUFS. Then I heard that the
way these mixes were being listened to was a simple MP3 of each,
sent via email. So the way the artist / A&R compares these
spec mixes, is typically not loudness normalised. Which means as
a mixer, if you want to be safe that your mix gets chosen, it
makes “sense" to make it louder.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I know for example with the last John Mayer album,
it was also spec mixed by multiple mixing engineers. So is it
possible that those highly paid mixers chose to make it really
loud, because it’s the safest bet? Spec mixes seem to be very
common nowadays.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Just wanted to share my 2 cents.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Best wishes,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Robin<br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 9 Feb 2019, at 09:39, Robert Ludwig <<a
href="mailto:gatewaybob@mac.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">gatewaybob@mac.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi
Kevin,
<div class="">While there are exceptions, like the new
Mark Knopfler album, some albums I work on are mixed
louder than I have ever encountered, and louder than I
would have ever considered to be a good final result.
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">So it isn’t the mastering engineers always
at fault, it is many of the very <u class="">highest
paid</u> mixers like Manny Marroquin, Shawn Everett,
Tom Elmhurst etc. who think their work should be
amazingly loud.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">They do their own pre-mastering to their
flat mixes and send those highly compressed mixes to
the client for their listening references. Their
clients don’t even get to HEAR the raw mixes which are
typically 5-10 dB less compressed than the listening
references. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If you are used to looking at VU meters:
Our mastering rooms are calibrated so 1kHz @ -14dBFS
= 0 VU on our consoles. I remember when DATs were
first being used in 1987 and mixes to DAT used to peak
around +2 to +4 VU. Today I <u class="">routinely</u>
get in listening mixes from the mix engineers that
peak at +10 or even +12VU! I mean +14VU is <u
class="">all that is possible</u>! Distorted? Yes
indeed!! I guess it is part of the ethos of it now. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The A&R people, the artists and
certainly the mixers expect me to at LEAST match their
listening reference level, a level I would normally
never dream of going that high..</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I try to do what I can. I tell clients
about Spotify loudness normalization and how they can
get a feel for that by comparing flat mixes vs.
compressed mixes with Sound Check turned on in iTunes.
When we start a project there is often a key song that
they want mastered before the album comes out and I
will send them both dynamic and hot versions and 90%
of the time they pick the hot one. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">For me, 2 of my “Best Engineered” Grammy
Awards are for records that are mixed and thus
mastered <u class="">way too hot:</u> the Beck
“Morning Phase” and the Alabama Shakes album that is
just <u class="">crazy</u> loud. Those nominations
are chosen by <u class="">craft committees</u> the
Recording Academy puts together of the best mixers and
well regarded mastering engineers. I don’t understand
it!</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Years ago when the mixers started doing
this I would only be supplied with their low level
original mixes (the ones the A&R people and the
artist have <u class="">never</u> heard!). I would
master the album to sound as good as possible and
everyone would report back how small and wimpy it
sounded… and how could someone like me even <u
class="">submit</u> something so bad? We
discovered this insane absurdity of them not supplying
the mastering engineer with the very mixes everyone
but us were listening to and USED TO! Once I heard
what they were hearing everything was fine. So in
short order our front office now asks specifically to
be supplied with the non-smashed mixes as well as the
files everyone else has been hearing. It has been one
of the most unexpected and disappointing situations. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">All my best,</div>
<div class="">Bob Ludwig</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Feb 9, 2019, at 10:25 AM, Kevin
Gross <<a href="mailto:kevin.gross@avanw.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">kevin.gross@avanw.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">I was surprised to learn
from Bob Ludwig's quotes that loudness
normalization has not been successful at
stemming the loudness war. Are others here in
agreement with this assessment?
<div class=""><br class="" clear="all">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Kevin Gross -
AVA Networks</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<pre><font class="3D""" face="3D"Courier"">
If you want good sound on your album, come to
Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
Author: <b>Mastering Audio</b>
<a href="https://www.digido.com/">Digital Domain Website</a>
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.</font>
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