<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Robin,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Exactly right on. It’s tough out there. Producers keep leaving the industry because it is harder to make royalties now.</div><div class="">The fact that record companies can get free-on speculation mixes from even the high priced mixers is a shame. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best,</div><div class="">Bob L.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 9, 2019, at 1:30 PM, Robin Reumers <<a href="mailto:robinreumers@gmail.com" class="">robinreumers@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi all,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I know I totally have no right to comment on this within the group, but I would love to share my personal experience with this. Last year, I got to do a spec mix for a well known Spanish artist. It got 5 Latin Grammy nominations and 1 Grammy nomination. 3 mixers were asked to mix 2 of the singles on the album and then the artist / A&R / producer picked a winner. I ended up not making it, but then I heard the mix that won and I really wanted to understand what they could have liked better about it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">One thing is that his mix that he sent to the client was about 6dBs louder (mine was around -13 LUFS). Mine already had some bus processing on it, to make it compete, but I didn’t want to deliver something at say -7 LUFS. Then I heard that the way these mixes were being listened to was a simple MP3 of each, sent via email. So the way the artist / A&R compares these spec mixes, is typically not loudness normalised. Which means as a mixer, if you want to be safe that your mix gets chosen, it makes “sense" to make it louder.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I know for example with the last John Mayer album, it was also spec mixed by multiple mixing engineers. So is it possible that those highly paid mixers chose to make it really loud, because it’s the safest bet? Spec mixes seem to be very common nowadays.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Just wanted to share my 2 cents.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best wishes,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Robin<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 9 Feb 2019, at 09:39, Robert Ludwig <<a href="mailto:gatewaybob@mac.com" class="">gatewaybob@mac.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Kevin,<div class="">While there are exceptions, like the new Mark Knopfler album, some albums I work on are mixed louder than I have ever encountered, and louder than I would have ever considered to be a good final result. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So it isn’t the mastering engineers always at fault, it is many of the very <u class="">highest paid</u> mixers like Manny Marroquin, Shawn Everett, Tom Elmhurst etc. who think their work should be amazingly loud.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">They do their own pre-mastering to their flat mixes and send those highly compressed mixes to the client for their listening references. Their clients don’t even get to HEAR the raw mixes which are typically 5-10 dB less compressed than the listening references. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If you are used to looking at VU meters: Our mastering rooms are calibrated so 1kHz @ -14dBFS = 0 VU on our consoles. I remember when DATs were first being used in 1987 and mixes to DAT used to peak around +2 to +4 VU. Today I <u class="">routinely</u> get in listening mixes from the mix engineers that peak at +10 or even +12VU! I mean +14VU is <u class="">all that is possible</u>! Distorted? Yes indeed!! I guess it is part of the ethos of it now. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The A&R people, the artists and certainly the mixers expect me to at LEAST match their listening reference level, a level I would normally never dream of going that high..</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I try to do what I can. I tell clients about Spotify loudness normalization and how they can get a feel for that by comparing flat mixes vs. compressed mixes with Sound Check turned on in iTunes. When we start a project there is often a key song that they want mastered before the album comes out and I will send them both dynamic and hot versions and 90% of the time they pick the hot one. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For me, 2 of my “Best Engineered” Grammy Awards are for records that are mixed and thus mastered <u class="">way too hot:</u> the Beck “Morning Phase” and the Alabama Shakes album that is just <u class="">crazy</u> loud. Those nominations are chosen by <u class="">craft committees</u> the Recording Academy puts together of the best mixers and well regarded mastering engineers. I don’t understand it!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Years ago when the mixers started doing this I would only be supplied with their low level original mixes (the ones the A&R people and the artist have <u class="">never</u> heard!). I would master the album to sound as good as possible and everyone would report back how small and wimpy it sounded… and how could someone like me even <u class="">submit</u> something so bad? We discovered this insane absurdity of them not supplying the mastering engineer with the very mixes everyone but us were listening to and USED TO! Once I heard what they were hearing everything was fine. So in short order our front office now asks specifically to be supplied with the non-smashed mixes as well as the files everyone else has been hearing. It has been one of the most unexpected and disappointing situations. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">All my best,</div><div class="">Bob Ludwig</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 9, 2019, at 10:25 AM, Kevin Gross <<a href="mailto:kevin.gross@avanw.com" class="">kevin.gross@avanw.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">I was surprised to learn from Bob Ludwig's quotes that loudness normalization has not been successful at stemming the loudness war. Are others here in agreement with this assessment?<div class=""><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class="">Kevin Gross - AVA Networks</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">MLA mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:MLA@grimmaudio.nl" class="">MLA@grimmaudio.nl</a><br class=""><a href="http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl" class="">http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">MLA mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:MLA@grimmaudio.nl" class="">MLA@grimmaudio.nl</a><br class="">http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>