<div dir="ltr">I would estimate that about a quarter of this standard is explicitly about portable devices and applications. We should also expect the trend of stationary application becoming portable to continue. Your cell phone or tablet is your OTT box in increasing cases. My daughters' generation watches most of their TV and listens to most of their music on portable devices. I don't know where the cart is but the horse is out of the barn.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Kevin Gross - AVA Networks</div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Bob Katz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bobkatz@digido.com" target="_blank">bobkatz@digido.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Dear Kevin: We are all aware of the conflicts involved. I
occasionally read the AGOTTV5 reports but got lazy about it, my
bad. <br>
</p>
<p>Since this is primarily intended for OTT boxes and portable has
not been mentioned, I hope there is not a big conflict. Music will
be turned down to -23 in the OTT boxes. Sooner or later we will
have to address this, but until metadata is standardized it's
putting the cart before the horse. I'm concentrating on helping us
get music streaming services in line, and then eventually we'll
have to reconcile things, but until metadata is standardized I
doubt we can solve the conflict with a document other than
recognizing that a conflict exists.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Bob</p><div><div class="gmail-h5">
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="gmail-m_-1721410043051234803moz-cite-prefix">On 6/3/18 5:17 PM, Kevin Gross wrote:<br>
</div>
</div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="gmail-h5">
<div dir="ltr">I don't know if any of you have been following or
working in the AES's AGOTTVS initiative. This group is working
on loudness for over the top (OTT) and online video distribution
(OVD). They have produced a standards document that will come
out for public comment soon as AES71. The recommendations are
reasonable - produce, transmit and use metadata where possible,
use BS.1770 with -23 or -24 LUFS target.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is, however, a large portable aspect to these topics
and the line between OVD and music loudness is not very crisp
(YouTube is everyone's favorite music streaming service). In
these cases the -23 LUFS is at odds with the -16 LUFS
recommendation in the AES TD1004 recommendation. -16 LUFS does
appear in the AES71 draft in what appears to be a "not to
exceed under any circumstances" specification.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Aside from the potential problems connecting these
recommendations, I see problems with a -23 LUFS target for
portable applications. We've discussed limitations of portable
devices and environments here and I know we don't all agree
but we have seen evidence that this is not loud enough for
certain hardware and situations and regulations. </div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">AGOTTVS<span> did
do some experiments on this and the findings were that
were that -23 didn't work for everyone in all scenarios
and that more testing was needed. I don't know how they
got from this to a -23 recommendation, but they did.</span></span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span><br>
</span></span></div>
<div><span style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">As
an officer in AES standards, I have reviewed the draft and
submitted some comments to clean up some definitions and
other inconsistencies and underspecification. I'm not sure
how to broach the subject of an unrealistic target level
recommendation. I was hoping someone here could talk me
through or talk me down from this.</span></div>
<div>
<div><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="gmail-m_-1721410043051234803gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">Kevin Gross - AVA Networks</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="gmail-m_-1721410043051234803mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
</div></div><pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
MLA mailing list
<a class="gmail-m_-1721410043051234803moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:MLA@grimmaudio.nl" target="_blank">MLA@grimmaudio.nl</a>
<a class="gmail-m_-1721410043051234803moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl" target="_blank">http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl</a><span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
</font></span></pre><span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
</font></span></blockquote><span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<br>
<div class="gmail-m_-1721410043051234803moz-signature">-- <br>
<div class="gmail-m_-1721410043051234803moz-signature">
<div class="gmail-m_-1721410043051234803moz-signature">
<div class="gmail-m_-1721410043051234803moz-signature">
<div class="gmail-m_-1721410043051234803moz-signature">
<div class="gmail-m_-1721410043051234803moz-signature">
<div class="gmail-m_-1721410043051234803moz-signature">
<pre class="gmail-m_-1721410043051234803moz-signature" cols="80"><font face="Courier">
If you want good sound on your album, come to
Bob Katz 407-831-0233 </font><font face="Courier">DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
Author: <b>Mastering Audio </b></font><font face="Courier">
<a href="http://www.digido.com/" target="_blank">Digital Domain Website</a>
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.<font color="#ff0000">
</font></font></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></span></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
MLA mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:MLA@grimmaudio.nl">MLA@grimmaudio.nl</a><br>
<a href="http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>