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<p>Track normalization is a big start towards consumers who do
background listening or non-attentive listening in their homes. As
opposed to album norm. Track normalization is a meaningful form of
manual compression, no doubt about it. <br>
</p>
<p>DRC is a big and important procedure that we can discuss in a
white paper, but please don't use it to derail any other
discussion. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>BK</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/12/17 11:40 AM, Kevin Gross
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALw1_Q1oJr=D8p2SdXg7+u_2gSFWaHUFpRfvw36HX4sHMSibcQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">For listening at low levels or in noisy
environments, we do need to talk about DRC. Maybe track
normalization is part of that discussion but it will definitely
not solve the problem on its own. Telling listeners track
normalization is for these situations is not very satisfying
advice.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Unless/until we can justify and explain how to
use a track normalization mode, we should not be advocating
that it be included in player implementations. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">If you want to do your own listening tests, no
Tidal subscription is required; Most players with ReplayGain
allow you to choose album vs track normalization. I use
MediaMonkey. <br>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">Kevin </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Dec 12, 2017 8:02 AM, "Bob Katz"
<<a href="mailto:bobkatz@digido.com" moz-do-not-send="true">bobkatz@digido.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>I think that background listeners playing background
music at low level would prefer track normalization. I
would in that case as the softer tracks become
non-viable. <br>
</p>
<p>Given that I believe that Tidal listeners are more
critical doing foreground listening, that track
normalization is not as urgent a requirement as it would
be with Spotify, Apple, etc. <br>
</p>
<p>I have no idea how to tell listeners how to specify
mode, but if I were trying to make life easier like
Apple attempts to do I would not give them that advice,
I would try to estimate what kind of a listener they are
based on the SPL they are listening at. So some form of
a smart player would be necessary. It's probably
impractical to implement, but I can dream, if the
computer uses its internal microphone to judge the
loudness of the music being played versus the noise of
the room, it could judge whether to use track or album
normalization.</p>
<p>Since that's currently science fiction, I have not easy
idea on how to present the options to the user. No
matter how you do it, it will be confusing. Beta test.
Beta test Beta test. Refine. Refine Refine. <br>
</p>
<p>Bob</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="m_-1928767454634560597moz-cite-prefix">On
12/12/17 10:34 AM, Kevin Gross wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">You've read Eelco's paper right? Aside
from the fact that album worked best subjectively for
normal and corner cases, one practical issue is that
if you include an album/track option for users you
should explain what it is for. I'm curious what advice
you would give to users on selecting mode. You say
track normalization is better in some cases. What
cases are those exactly?
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="m_-1928767454634560597gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">Kevin Gross - AVA Networks</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at
1:56 AM, Thomas Lund <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:thomas@lund.one" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">thomas@lund.one</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
We have had some discussions after it became
clear Tidal's system didn’t support
Loudness-normalization based both on Track and
Album; so they are stuck with the latter for
now. If we jump to conclusions, more companies
this group is used to advise, may find
themselves taking one step forward and two
backwards.<br>
<br>
For some applications, Track norm is better, for
other applications Album norm should be
preferred. It’s bad advice to impose an
either/or decision, and in this case it might
have ramifications for Tidal’s capability to
comply with certain requirements or new track
search criteria.<br>
<br>
Careful and unbiased guidance in these matters
will better stand the test of time.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Thomas<br>
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<pre class="m_-1928767454634560597moz-signature" cols="80"><font face="Courier">
If you want good sound on your album, come to
Bob Katz <a href="tel:%28407%29%20831-0233" value="+14078310233" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">407-831-0233</a> </font><font face="Courier">DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
Author: <b>Mastering Audio </b></font><font face="Courier">
<a href="http://www.digido.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Digital Domain Website</a>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="80"><font face="Courier">
If you want good sound on your album, come to
Bob Katz 407-831-0233 </font><font face="Courier">DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
Author: <b>Mastering Audio </b></font><font face="Courier">
<a href="http://www.digido.com/">Digital Domain Website</a>
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