<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><br></div><div>Hi Bob,<br><br>Having just read Eelco's summary, I think the majority of the points you've outlined in your mail are already covered very well.</div><div><br></div><div>Rather than distract from the momentum of Eelco's conversation with Buddy so far, perhaps better for him to simply say he has shown the MLA his summary and that we fully endorse it ? Assuming that's the case, of course :-)</div><div><br></div><div>Ian</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br>On 26 May 2017, at 17:49, Bob Katz <<a href="mailto:bobkatz@digido.com">bobkatz@digido.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>Congratulations in advance, Eelco! I have yet to read your last revision.</div><div><br></div><div>I have Buddy's ear and he and I have conversed several times in the past year, but all about MFIT stuff and not about normalization. </div><div><br></div><div><div>I'd like us to touch base with Buddy. Should we compose a group email summarizing our thoughts and send it to Buddy?</div><div><br></div></div><div>Let's summarize our points:</div><div><br></div><div>a) loudness normalization on by default. Ideally BS.1770. </div><div><br></div><div>b) album norm on all the time.</div><div><br></div><div>c) No upward normalization unless the peak level would not clip.</div><div><br></div><div>d) No peak limiting</div><div><br></div><div>e) Point out that singles (which have no album) will automatically sound as loud as the loudest song in any album even if the single is a ballad or soft song. Well, this behaves no worse than track normalization ever did. I guess it will work itself out. The big discrepancies will be between singles that are soft songs against that same song in the album. But it's no worse than the old days when ballads were often released as singles, peak normalized, louder than how they appeared on the album. </div><div><br></div><div>f) If they choose a higher target, like -14 LUFS, it works out fine and does not cause a loudness race:</div><div><br></div><div>--- ONLY if album normalization is on all the time and</div><div><br></div><div>---ONLY if album normalization is based on the loudest track in the album and</div><div><br></div><div>---ONLY if there is no upward normalization beyond the clipping point. </div><div><br></div><div>g) Album norm would require a new field in the metadata that Apple is apparently not using. One which calculates the loudest song in the album. Personally I think the field should contain the absolute LUFS of the loudest song. That allows playback systems to easily update to new targets.</div><div><br></div><div>h) Currently itunes only turns on album norm in a playlist. It also only turns it on with contiguous tracks.... My studies and your study have shown that contiguous is not necessary to enjoy the benefits of album norm. </div><div><br></div><div>iTunes currently keeps on calculating a new "average" and recalculates the album normalization in a playlist depending on how many tracks from the album it discovers. It's actually far more complicated and fraught with bugs than the simple "album norm all the time" principle so the apple algorithms will become simpler, not complicated. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Best wishes,</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Bob</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Wed, 2017-05-24 at 08:09 +0200, Grimm | Eelco wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><pre>Hi Thomas,
<blockquote type="cite">
Well done if Apple has been convinced by your study to turn on loudness normalization by default. Still, I encourage you to submit it for JAES or a conference so the scientific scrutinization process can get started, and we can get out of this stalled state.
</blockquote>
Yes I will. It is planned for the New York conference. I will definitely keep you all involved in the writing of that paper.
Cheers,
Eelco
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