<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Dear Ian.</div><div><br></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">If Eelco can make another mail list it will help us to stay in sync as with regular emails you often miss one of the recipients. </span></div><div><br></div><div>Also I'm not sure if my emails to the music loudness alliance are making it through so you may see a repeat of this series as soon as Eelco fixes his mail server. </div><div><br></div><div>Ian, I think your inspiration is excellent about a "universal petition" that addresses Spotify and Pandora's weaknesses as well as Apple Music and apple's file playback. And defuses any issue of an "attack" on Apple. As long as it is strong enough to get the attention of each individual service. Because I fear that human nature is such that when you criticize a group of separate people it dilutes the strength compared to a single, directed critique. </div><div><br></div><div> We mist work together on the petition's content and the press release content as they must complement each other. Moreover, get both done before AES in New York. We should get tremendous traction Between our Facebook friends, NARAS (if they wish to get involved), AES (if they wish to get involved), Press (who will react to the press release and who we can inform about the petition), and the thousands of signatures I expect from audio engineers attending the convention and other concerted efforts. </div><div><br></div><div>We must set a goal of having the streaming and the petition out by AES convention. I definitely agree with using <a href="http://change.org">change.org</a> or a similar entity. I'm on iPhone right now. </div><div><br></div><div>Who would be the named petitioner(s)? It's not as powerful to have individual names as the petitioners unless the names are very famous and well known. It's more powerful to have an organization signing it. If we go for the famous people petition it won't be ready by the convention as it takes time to rally them. Likewise, if we have to wait for NARAS support it probably won't be ready by the convention. </div><div><br></div><div>So please think about who would be the originators of the petition. If Andres Mayo signs it as president of the AES but there is no support then he cannot sign it on behalf of the AES. And in fact it might be politically incorrect for him to sign with his AES attribute. Not to put words in Andres mouth. Please tell us, Andres how you think that would work. </div><div><br></div><div>Another signatory could be a new Facebook group. We already saw how public outcry on Facebook got the owner of an AIDS drug to drop the price. I</div><div><br></div><div>There is already a Facebook group called "stop the loudness war" with 3067 members. We must be united and figure the best named signatory to be the originator of the petition. If it can be the AES it would be fantastic. </div><div><br></div><div>Regardless Let's drop this bomb when it's ready and not before. Please Do not put out any word about this proposed petition until we have all our ducks in a row!</div><div><br></div><div>Bob<br><br><div>My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more to see here. <div>----------------------------------------------------</div></div></div><div><br>On Sep 28, 2015, at 6:46 PM, Ian Shepherd <<a href="mailto:ian@productionadvice.co.uk">ian@productionadvice.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"><div class=""><br class=""></div>Hi Bob,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’m very happy to support this idea. I can publish it on the DRD website, and the Facebook page has over 12,000 Likes, so I can share it there and with my other social media connections. I can also ask Allen Wagner to put it on the Turn Me Up site, and perhaps email their database.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The way I see it, we currently have both the elements we need, but supported separately by three services. Apple have a sane normalisation level, but it’s disabled by default. Spotify and YouTube have normalisation enabled by default, but as you know their choices of normalisation levels are unfortunately high.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Perhaps we tackle both issues, and all three services, at the same time ? Tell YouTube and Spotify they both need to support the up-coming AES recommendation of -16 LUFS <b class="">and</b> ask Apple to enable Sound Check by default, on streaming if not elsewhere ?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That way we can name names without seeming partisan, and we give all three the chance to “not be evil” first. If one bites, hopefully the others will follow suit.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’m in regardless, whatever you decide.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ian</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">PS. Maybe it would help if Taylor Swift would say something ! :-p More seriously, maybe Bob L. could connect us with Pharrell...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">PPS. On a practical level, will this be an online petition ? If so, have you chosen a site to use ? <a href="http://Change.org" class="">Change.org</a> is pretty good.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 28 Sep 2015, at 22:43, Bob Katz <<a href="mailto:bobkatz@digido.com" class="">bobkatz@digido.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">Cool, Andres. I'm so glad you love it. <br class=""><br class="">Here's a start;<br class=""><br class="">As soon as the streaming loudness recommendations are approved and we can point to them via an AES route I'll draft and propose a press release and post that to this small group for discuss.<br class=""><br class="">I'm about to pull the plug on the doc as the team has run out of steam and we are finally picking tiny nits! So please get us in touch with the AES brass to help us release the doc and do something with it. <br class=""><br class="">Next step will be to see if we can construct a petition. I predict that the AES brass will not support a petition with the AES name on it as it is not the AES way and I respect that. <br class=""><br class="">But a petition signed by audio engjneers and producers and perhaps with NARAS collaboration and co-publicity about it in the press can do. <br class=""><br class="">Ideas: we might not have to direct the petition to Apple directly. We could direct it to all streaming entities. Saying: "you can help end the loudness war and ensure our music heritage. Here's how"<br class=""><br class="">But I think Apple will only listen if they're named and put on the spot directly. If it's a general petition they'll think "who, me? This isn't for us". We've tried all kinds of low key pressure up to this point and it hasn't worked. It's a bit like negotiating with Iran, even to the point of no response. <br class=""><br class="">Let's keep talking. Bob Ludwig, Thomas Lund, Kevin Gross, Florian Camerer, Eelco Grimm, Ian Shepherd, are on this discussion. I just added George Massenburg and John Atkinson. George and John, please read the quoted sections below. <br class=""><br class="">Let's make this petition happen by New York as we can get thousands of signatures. Even if it is not an official AES doc. But if we can get support from AES or tacit approval it would be even better. <br class=""><br class="">Best<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Bob <br class=""><br class="">My iPhone made me this. . <br class="">----------------------------------------------------<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">On Sep 28, 2015, at 4:51 PM, Andres Mayo | Audio Engineering Society <<a href="mailto:andres.mayo@aes.org" class="">andres.mayo@aes.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class="">I love the idea, Bob, we have to find a way of doing it.<br class=""><br class="">Andres<br class=""><br class="">--<br class="">Andrés Mayo, Dipl. Ing.<br class="">President<br class="">The Audio Engineering Society, Inc.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">-----Original Message-----<br class="">From: Bob Katz [<a href="mailto:bobkatz@digido.com" class="">mailto:bobkatz@digido.com</a>] <br class="">Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 10:23 AM<br class="">To: Music Loudness Alliance Alliance; <a href="mailto:ian@productionadvice.co.uk" class="">ian@productionadvice.co.uk</a>; Andres<br class="">Mayo | Audio Engineering Society<br class="">Subject: Reviving the apple petition idea<br class=""><br class="">Guys. Please include Ian Stewart in your replies to this plea from me.<br class="">Please include Andres Mayo in your replies. This message sent to the music<br class="">loudness alliance, Ian Stewart and Andres Mayo, mastering engineer and<br class="">current president of the AES. <br class=""><br class="">Guys, I think it's time to play a little more hardball with Apple. As audio<br class="">engineers, as the music loudness group, as individuals and even the<br class="">president of the audio engineering society, we've been playing the gentle,<br class="">softball diplomatic approach to our plea to get Apple to make Sound Check a<br class="">default. I know that they have been listening and hearing our message but<br class="">ignoring it. Some unknown Apple executive (I have ideas who it might be)<br class="">with a lot of power is blocking this decision. <br class=""><br class="">I've had some success with my trad rock and jazz clients that the loudness<br class="">war is waning and that a conservative master will fare better on the<br class="">Loudness normalized services. But in the case of current pop and punk style<br class="">rock we are not able to win this argument. The producers are not willing to<br class="">produce a "conservative" master when the competition is at -7 LUFS! At that<br class="">level a dB of reduction is an imperceptible drop in the bucket. <br class=""><br class="">I just lost a plea to a client not to ruin his master because he says that<br class="">teenagers don't know where iTunes preferences are and when they download the<br class="">song or album it's going to seem low compared to the competition. He said,<br class="">"crush it, Bob, that's what I want". And he has a point. <br class=""><br class="">The thrust of my argument was that YouTube, Prodigy, iTunes Radio and other<br class="">services are loudness normalized and I even demonstrated to him that the<br class="">competing piece he was using as an example is a casualty of the loudness<br class="">war. By asking him to put that piece and my master into iTunes with Sound<br class="">Check we clearly demonstrated that my master sounds fantastic, that it kicks<br class="">ass and that his example piece is super wimpy with the worst sounding<br class="">compression you can imagine. <br class=""><br class="">But that was not important to him. He just wants it loud for the people who<br class="">buy and download the piece. <br class=""><br class="">And that was the end of it. Because he has a point. Apple not making Sound<br class="">Check a default is a very big thorn in our side. That's always been the<br class="">battle I've tried to fight for a long time. And now with Apple Music<br class="">streaming also not being loudness normalized it's a slap in the face to our<br class="">efforts for better sound. <br class=""><br class="">No amount of coddling, pleading, soft talk, books and articles has had any<br class="">effect on Apple. And they aren't interested in participating in our<br class="">committees or seminars either. <br class=""><br class="">I am now going to advocate we play hard ball. Because we've tried every<br class="">other avenue and failed. The only thing that will convince Apple is a public<br class="">outcry. I am suggesting a public petition, articles about that subject in<br class="">the magazines and a public plea to Apple to save our music heritage.<br class=""><br class="">I am suggesting publicizing this petition at the AES convention and also<br class="">with NARAS. I suspect that publicly the AES will not get behind this<br class="">because of their corporate stance. But perhaps Andres as a mastering<br class="">engineer/president can help us get past that resistance. But a public<br class="">petition sponsored by the AES is unprecedented. <br class=""><br class="">In the past the objection to such a petition has been that it might<br class="">backfire, that Apple would stonewall us. Yet I have reached the point that<br class="">only a carefully constructed public campaign will get results. <br class=""><br class="">We are on the threshold of approving Streaming Loudness guidelines. As the<br class="">co-chair of that committee I would like to write a press release that<br class="">announces these guidelines and encourage getting them to all the streaming<br class="">entities. We can use this press release as a public plea to streaming<br class="">entities and even without mentioning Apple's name we all will know who the<br class="">500 kilo gorilla is. <br class=""><br class="">Maybe after that press release goes out we'll finally get some back channel<br class="">response from Apple. But I think a petition should also be made and at the<br class="">convention is a perfect place to get signatures <br class=""><br class="">My 5000 Facebook friends are tired of the Loudness War. We all want it to<br class="">end. The time is now. <br class=""><br class="">What say we get behind an effort of this sort timed to occur at the New York<br class="">convention!<br class=""><br class="">Best wishes <br class=""><br class="">Bob<br class=""><br class="">My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more to<br class="">see here. <br class="">----------------------------------------------------=<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">---<br class="">This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.<br class=""><a href="http://www.avast.com" class="">http://www.avast.com</a><br class=""><br class=""></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; widows: 2; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="font-size: 13px;" class="">***</div><div style="font-size: 13px;" class="">Ian Shepherd</div><div style="font-size: 13px;" class=""><a href="http://productionadvice.co.uk" class="">Production Advice</a> - make your music sound great</div><div style="font-size: 13px;" class=""><a href="http://twitter.com/ianshepherd" class="">http://twitter.com/ianshepherd</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; widows: 2; border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue';" class=""><span style="letter-spacing: 0px;" class="">Mastering Media (Production Advice) Ltd, </span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue';" class=""><span style="letter-spacing: 0px;" class="">152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX</span></div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial;" class=""><span style="letter-spacing: 0px;" class="">Registered in England and Wales </span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial;" class=""><span style="letter-spacing: 0px;" class="">Company No. 8610960</span></div></span></span></div></span></span></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></div></div>
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