From eelco at grimmaudio.com  Tue Jan 18 22:54:44 2022
From: eelco at grimmaudio.com (Grimm | Eelco)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 22:54:44 +0100
Subject: [MLA] Apple seems to have turned Soundcheck ON by default...
In-Reply-To: <0B8FE147-FE7E-4772-B5D6-3AABF644A970@grimmaudio.com>
References: <A01EED41-47FF-4659-AB12-A9704968AA1C@grimmaudio.com>
	<FFFB9CB2-E9F9-4502-BB6F-C2525FD81C58@icloud.com>
	<296064EE-653C-4121-85E8-278573A1B6E9@grimmaudio.com>
	<817C944E-697F-40D8-8E33-11F9E7635B87@me.com>
	<0B8FE147-FE7E-4772-B5D6-3AABF644A970@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>

Dear friends,

I had a conversation with Buddy. This is the situation:

- Apple Music is now LUFS in stead of ?SoundCheck?. The track normalization target is -16 LUFS - which is compatible with td1008! Album normalization is still -16 LUFS for the average album level, like it used to be with SoundCheck - which is not compatible with td1008? Buddy is pushing for adopting td1008 on this aspect too. For me it is very important because we want to tell the world that there?s just 1 method now. But at least they have come halfway.

- Normalization is now ON by default because the loudness jump from -6 LUFS pop material to Atmos mixes and back was too much for the managers. So it was Dolby Atmos that finally solved it (how ironic).

- Apple Music does not switch the sample rate of a connected sound card automatically, like for instance the Tidal app does. In my opinion this is quite ignorant when streaming lossless high res audio quality. According to Buddy the topic was on the agenda, but considered just as a ?nice to have?. Small chance it will be solved soon.

- Apple Music is now also open for Android and web browsers (Web Player <https://music.apple.com/> and MusicKit <https://developer.apple.com/musickit/>) but lossless and Atmos is not supported via these channels because of DRM? This will hopefully be solved later.

All the best,
Eelco
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From gatewaybob at me.com  Tue Jan 18 23:18:26 2022
From: gatewaybob at me.com (Robert Ludwig)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 17:18:26 -0500
Subject: [MLA] Apple seems to have turned Soundcheck ON by default...
In-Reply-To: <509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
References: <A01EED41-47FF-4659-AB12-A9704968AA1C@grimmaudio.com>
	<FFFB9CB2-E9F9-4502-BB6F-C2525FD81C58@icloud.com>
	<296064EE-653C-4121-85E8-278573A1B6E9@grimmaudio.com>
	<817C944E-697F-40D8-8E33-11F9E7635B87@me.com>
	<0B8FE147-FE7E-4772-B5D6-3AABF644A970@grimmaudio.com>
	<509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <91C5D674-7159-470A-B43B-40CEBB3D53C4@me.com>

Hi Eelco!

Thanks much for sending this to me.

All my best,

Bob

> On Jan 18, 2022, at 4:54 PM, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear friends,
> 
> I had a conversation with Buddy. This is the situation:
> 
> - Apple Music is now LUFS in stead of ?SoundCheck?. The track normalization target is -16 LUFS - which is compatible with td1008! Album normalization is still -16 LUFS for the average album level, like it used to be with SoundCheck - which is not compatible with td1008? Buddy is pushing for adopting td1008 on this aspect too. For me it is very important because we want to tell the world that there?s just 1 method now. But at least they have come halfway.
> 
> - Normalization is now ON by default because the loudness jump from -6 LUFS pop material to Atmos mixes and back was too much for the managers. So it was Dolby Atmos that finally solved it (how ironic).
> 
> - Apple Music does not switch the sample rate of a connected sound card automatically, like for instance the Tidal app does. In my opinion this is quite ignorant when streaming lossless high res audio quality. According to Buddy the topic was on the agenda, but considered just as a ?nice to have?. Small chance it will be solved soon.
> 
> - Apple Music is now also open for Android and web browsers (Web Player <https://music.apple.com/> and MusicKit <https://developer.apple.com/musickit/>) but lossless and Atmos is not supported via these channels because of DRM? This will hopefully be solved later.
> 
> All the best,
> Eelco
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

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From bobkatz at digido.com  Wed Jan 19 00:08:30 2022
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 18:08:30 -0500
Subject: [MLA] Apple seems to have turned Soundcheck ON by default...
In-Reply-To: <509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
References: <A01EED41-47FF-4659-AB12-A9704968AA1C@grimmaudio.com>
	<FFFB9CB2-E9F9-4502-BB6F-C2525FD81C58@icloud.com>
	<296064EE-653C-4121-85E8-278573A1B6E9@grimmaudio.com>
	<817C944E-697F-40D8-8E33-11F9E7635B87@me.com>
	<0B8FE147-FE7E-4772-B5D6-3AABF644A970@grimmaudio.com>
	<509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <bfa1c9a0-df3e-18a8-f57e-73b2094486b4@digido.com>

Hi, Eelco. At the AES convention, Buddy announced that Normalization 
would be turned on by default but only for NEW devices. Is this 
announcement an improvement even over the announcement he had made at 
the convention?


Bob



On 1/18/22 4:54 PM, Grimm | Eelco wrote:
> Dear friends,
>
> I had a conversation with Buddy. This is the situation:
>
> - Apple Music is now LUFS in stead of ?SoundCheck?. The track 
> normalization target is -16 LUFS - which is compatible with td1008! 
> Album normalization is still -16 LUFS for the average album level, 
> like it used to be with SoundCheck - which is not compatible with 
> td1008? Buddy is pushing for adopting td1008 on this aspect too. For 
> me it is very important because we want to tell the world that there?s 
> just 1 method now. But at least they have come halfway.
>
> - Normalization is now ON by default because the loudness jump from -6 
> LUFS pop material to Atmos mixes and back was too much for the 
> managers. So it was Dolby Atmos that finally solved it (how ironic).
>
> - Apple Music does not switch the sample rate of a connected sound 
> card automatically, like for instance the Tidal app does. In my 
> opinion this is quite ignorant when streaming lossless high res audio 
> quality. According to Buddy the topic was on the agenda, but 
> considered just as a ?nice to have?. Small chance it will be solved soon.
>
> - Apple Music is now also open for Android and web browsers (Web 
> Player <https://music.apple.com/>?and MusicKit 
> <https://developer.apple.com/musickit/>) but lossless and Atmos is not 
> supported via these channels because of DRM? This will hopefully be 
> solved later.
>
> All the best,
> Eelco
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio* Digital Domain 
Website <https://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.
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From bobkatz at digido.com  Wed Jan 19 00:11:10 2022
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 18:11:10 -0500
Subject: [MLA] Apple seems to have turned Soundcheck ON by default...
In-Reply-To: <509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
References: <A01EED41-47FF-4659-AB12-A9704968AA1C@grimmaudio.com>
	<FFFB9CB2-E9F9-4502-BB6F-C2525FD81C58@icloud.com>
	<296064EE-653C-4121-85E8-278573A1B6E9@grimmaudio.com>
	<817C944E-697F-40D8-8E33-11F9E7635B87@me.com>
	<0B8FE147-FE7E-4772-B5D6-3AABF644A970@grimmaudio.com>
	<509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <3caf8996-5453-9769-cbd4-c5d5b0bac9a2@digido.com>

Hi, Eelco. I just opened Apple Music in Big Sur (OS 11.5) on my iMac and 
Soundcheck is not turned on. I've never run Apple music anyway... not 
since several Mac OS versions, probably going back to when it was 
iTunes, so I would have expected Sound Check to be turned on, but it is 
not.

This is not a "new device".


Bob



On 1/18/22 4:54 PM, Grimm | Eelco wrote:
> Dear friends,
>
> I had a conversation with Buddy. This is the situation:
>
> - Apple Music is now LUFS in stead of ?SoundCheck?. The track 
> normalization target is -16 LUFS - which is compatible with td1008! 
> Album normalization is still -16 LUFS for the average album level, 
> like it used to be with SoundCheck - which is not compatible with 
> td1008? Buddy is pushing for adopting td1008 on this aspect too. For 
> me it is very important because we want to tell the world that there?s 
> just 1 method now. But at least they have come halfway.
>
> - Normalization is now ON by default because the loudness jump from -6 
> LUFS pop material to Atmos mixes and back was too much for the 
> managers. So it was Dolby Atmos that finally solved it (how ironic).
>
> - Apple Music does not switch the sample rate of a connected sound 
> card automatically, like for instance the Tidal app does. In my 
> opinion this is quite ignorant when streaming lossless high res audio 
> quality. According to Buddy the topic was on the agenda, but 
> considered just as a ?nice to have?. Small chance it will be solved soon.
>
> - Apple Music is now also open for Android and web browsers (Web 
> Player <https://music.apple.com/>?and MusicKit 
> <https://developer.apple.com/musickit/>) but lossless and Atmos is not 
> supported via these channels because of DRM? This will hopefully be 
> solved later.
>
> All the best,
> Eelco
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio* Digital Domain 
Website <https://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.
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From eelco at grimmaudio.com  Wed Jan 19 00:18:54 2022
From: eelco at grimmaudio.com (Grimm | Eelco)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 00:18:54 +0100
Subject: [MLA] Apple seems to have turned Soundcheck ON by default...
In-Reply-To: <bfa1c9a0-df3e-18a8-f57e-73b2094486b4@digido.com>
References: <A01EED41-47FF-4659-AB12-A9704968AA1C@grimmaudio.com>
	<FFFB9CB2-E9F9-4502-BB6F-C2525FD81C58@icloud.com>
	<296064EE-653C-4121-85E8-278573A1B6E9@grimmaudio.com>
	<817C944E-697F-40D8-8E33-11F9E7635B87@me.com>
	<0B8FE147-FE7E-4772-B5D6-3AABF644A970@grimmaudio.com>
	<509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
	<bfa1c9a0-df3e-18a8-f57e-73b2094486b4@digido.com>
Message-ID: <FCD25CE1-8357-4E5E-9EA3-31CB0C75F1B5@grimmaudio.com>

Hi Bob,

> Hi, Eelco. At the AES convention, Buddy announced that Normalization would be turned on by default but only for NEW devices. Is this announcement an improvement even over the announcement he had made at the convention?
> 

No, that?s still as it is afaik. Our former thread on this topic covered that, Bob Ludwig had confirmed that normalization is not ON by default if a user moves his/her old data to a new device. So the new default is only effective for Apple customers who never owned an Apple device. That is a _very_ small group of people I?m afraid?

Let?s hope there will be an ?evolutionary process? in the minds of the Apple managers.

Cheers,
Eelco

> On 1/18/22 4:54 PM, Grimm | Eelco wrote:
>> Dear friends,
>> 
>> I had a conversation with Buddy. This is the situation:
>> 
>> - Apple Music is now LUFS in stead of ?SoundCheck?. The track normalization target is -16 LUFS - which is compatible with td1008! Album normalization is still -16 LUFS for the         average album level, like it used to be with SoundCheck - which is not compatible with td1008? Buddy is pushing for adopting td1008 on this aspect too. For me it is very important because we want to tell the world that there?s just 1 method now. But at least they have come halfway.
>> 
>> - Normalization is now ON by default because the loudness jump from -6 LUFS pop material to Atmos mixes and back was too much for the managers. So it was Dolby Atmos that finally solved it (how ironic).
>> 
>> - Apple Music does not switch the sample rate of a connected sound card automatically, like for instance the Tidal app does. In my opinion this is quite ignorant when streaming lossless high res audio quality. According to Buddy the topic was on the agenda, but considered just as a ?nice to have?. Small chance it will be solved soon.
>> 
>> - Apple Music is now also open for Android and web browsers (Web Player <https://music.apple.com/> and MusicKit <https://developer.apple.com/musickit/>) but lossless and Atmos is not supported via these channels because of DRM? This will         hopefully be solved later.
>> 
>> All the best,
>> Eelco
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
> -- 
> 
> 
> If you want good sound on your album, come to
> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
> Author: Mastering Audio
> Digital Domain Website <https://www.digido.com/>
> 
> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

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From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Wed Jan 19 01:13:18 2022
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 00:13:18 +0000
Subject: [MLA] Apple seems to have turned Soundcheck ON by default...
In-Reply-To: <FCD25CE1-8357-4E5E-9EA3-31CB0C75F1B5@grimmaudio.com>
References: <A01EED41-47FF-4659-AB12-A9704968AA1C@grimmaudio.com>
	<FFFB9CB2-E9F9-4502-BB6F-C2525FD81C58@icloud.com>
	<296064EE-653C-4121-85E8-278573A1B6E9@grimmaudio.com>
	<817C944E-697F-40D8-8E33-11F9E7635B87@me.com>
	<0B8FE147-FE7E-4772-B5D6-3AABF644A970@grimmaudio.com>
	<509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
	<bfa1c9a0-df3e-18a8-f57e-73b2094486b4@digido.com>
	<FCD25CE1-8357-4E5E-9EA3-31CB0C75F1B5@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <EFF4AAA5-4772-4A00-B235-E7E0A0C988E7@mastering-media.co.uk>



Overall great news, thanks fo the updates all ! 

> So the new default is only effective for Apple customers who never owned an Apple device. That is a _very_ small group of people I?m afraid?
> 
> Let?s hope there will be an ?evolutionary process? in the minds of the Apple managers

Maybe Buddy will point out to them that everyone who already owns an Apple device will be hearing it the ?old? way and that Atmos won?t sound nearly so impressive as a result??!?

Eelco, presumably the switch to LUFS applies only on devices using the latest OS versions ? Is it immediately active across the whole catalogue ?

One less positive note - I was listening to some of my favourite classical choral Christmas music over the holiday and heard some unexpected dynamics. Disabling Sound Check fixed this, so I guess I was hearing a limiter ? 

This was Apple Music on an iPhone via AirPlay to Apple TV 2, I haven?t checked whether I would also have heard it on AirPods etc?

Ian

From bobkatz at digido.com  Wed Jan 19 17:12:19 2022
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 11:12:19 -0500
Subject: [MLA] Apple seems to have turned Soundcheck ON by default...
In-Reply-To: <FCD25CE1-8357-4E5E-9EA3-31CB0C75F1B5@grimmaudio.com>
References: <A01EED41-47FF-4659-AB12-A9704968AA1C@grimmaudio.com>
	<FFFB9CB2-E9F9-4502-BB6F-C2525FD81C58@icloud.com>
	<296064EE-653C-4121-85E8-278573A1B6E9@grimmaudio.com>
	<817C944E-697F-40D8-8E33-11F9E7635B87@me.com>
	<0B8FE147-FE7E-4772-B5D6-3AABF644A970@grimmaudio.com>
	<509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
	<bfa1c9a0-df3e-18a8-f57e-73b2094486b4@digido.com>
	<FCD25CE1-8357-4E5E-9EA3-31CB0C75F1B5@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <b844224f-3763-fbd6-7674-988b99e68a6c@digido.com>

On 1/18/22 6:18 PM, Grimm | Eelco wrote:

> Let?s hope there will be an ?evolutionary process? in the minds of the 
> Apple managers.
>

Fat chance :-(.? I forgot who told me what finally convinced Apple 
managers to go with SoundCheck on by default. I think it was the -18 
LUFS Atmos introduction and the level jumps related to that.


Bob




> Cheers,
> Eelco
>
>> On 1/18/22 4:54 PM, Grimm | Eelco wrote:
>>> Dear friends,
>>>
>>> I had a conversation with Buddy. This is the situation:
>>>
>>> - Apple Music is now LUFS in stead of ?SoundCheck?. The track 
>>> normalization target is -16 LUFS - which is compatible with td1008! 
>>> Album normalization is still -16 LUFS for the average album level, 
>>> like it used to be with SoundCheck - which is not compatible with 
>>> td1008? Buddy is pushing for adopting td1008 on this aspect too. For 
>>> me it is very important because we want to tell the world that 
>>> there?s just 1 method now. But at least they have come halfway.
>>>
>>> - Normalization is now ON by default because the loudness jump from 
>>> -6 LUFS pop material to Atmos mixes and back was too much for the 
>>> managers. So it was Dolby Atmos that finally solved it (how ironic).
>>>
>>> - Apple Music does not switch the sample rate of a connected sound 
>>> card automatically, like for instance the Tidal app does. In my 
>>> opinion this is quite ignorant when streaming lossless high res 
>>> audio quality. According to Buddy the topic was on the agenda, but 
>>> considered just as a ?nice to have?. Small chance it will be solved 
>>> soon.
>>>
>>> - Apple Music is now also open for Android and web browsers (Web 
>>> Player <https://music.apple.com/>?and MusicKit 
>>> <https://developer.apple.com/musickit/>) but lossless and Atmos is 
>>> not supported via these channels because of DRM? This will hopefully 
>>> be solved later.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>> Eelco
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MLA mailing list
>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>> -- 
>> If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
>> DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio* Digital 
>> Domain Website <https://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the 
>> sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were 
>> terribly inconvenienced.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio* Digital Domain 
Website <https://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.
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From bobkatz at digido.com  Wed Jan 19 17:14:45 2022
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 11:14:45 -0500
Subject: [MLA] Apple seems to have turned Soundcheck ON by default...
In-Reply-To: <EFF4AAA5-4772-4A00-B235-E7E0A0C988E7@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <A01EED41-47FF-4659-AB12-A9704968AA1C@grimmaudio.com>
	<FFFB9CB2-E9F9-4502-BB6F-C2525FD81C58@icloud.com>
	<296064EE-653C-4121-85E8-278573A1B6E9@grimmaudio.com>
	<817C944E-697F-40D8-8E33-11F9E7635B87@me.com>
	<0B8FE147-FE7E-4772-B5D6-3AABF644A970@grimmaudio.com>
	<509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
	<bfa1c9a0-df3e-18a8-f57e-73b2094486b4@digido.com>
	<FCD25CE1-8357-4E5E-9EA3-31CB0C75F1B5@grimmaudio.com>
	<EFF4AAA5-4772-4A00-B235-E7E0A0C988E7@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <71ee4179-6147-634e-3da5-e3868252f255@digido.com>

Ian, in your copious free time you should capture both ways. If you 
detect anything other than just a gain shift, then we should alert Buddy 
and maybe he can get that changed.

And in fact, if you can give me links to that choral music I'd like to 
check it and measure it.


Bob


On 1/18/22 7:13 PM, Ian Shepherd wrote:
>
> Overall great news, thanks fo the updates all !
>
>> So the new default is only effective for Apple customers who never owned an Apple device. That is a _very_ small group of people I?m afraid?
>>
>> Let?s hope there will be an ?evolutionary process? in the minds of the Apple managers
> Maybe Buddy will point out to them that everyone who already owns an Apple device will be hearing it the ?old? way and that Atmos won?t sound nearly so impressive as a result??!?
>
> Eelco, presumably the switch to LUFS applies only on devices using the latest OS versions ? Is it immediately active across the whole catalogue ?
>
> One less positive note - I was listening to some of my favourite classical choral Christmas music over the holiday and heard some unexpected dynamics. Disabling Sound Check fixed this, so I guess I was hearing a limiter ?
>
> This was Apple Music on an iPhone via AirPlay to Apple TV 2, I haven?t checked whether I would also have heard it on AirPods etc?
>
> Ian
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio* Digital Domain 
Website <https://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.
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From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Wed Jan 19 17:54:25 2022
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 16:54:25 +0000
Subject: [MLA] Apple seems to have turned Soundcheck ON by default...
In-Reply-To: <71ee4179-6147-634e-3da5-e3868252f255@digido.com>
References: <A01EED41-47FF-4659-AB12-A9704968AA1C@grimmaudio.com>
	<FFFB9CB2-E9F9-4502-BB6F-C2525FD81C58@icloud.com>
	<296064EE-653C-4121-85E8-278573A1B6E9@grimmaudio.com>
	<817C944E-697F-40D8-8E33-11F9E7635B87@me.com>
	<0B8FE147-FE7E-4772-B5D6-3AABF644A970@grimmaudio.com>
	<509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
	<bfa1c9a0-df3e-18a8-f57e-73b2094486b4@digido.com>
	<FCD25CE1-8357-4E5E-9EA3-31CB0C75F1B5@grimmaudio.com>
	<EFF4AAA5-4772-4A00-B235-E7E0A0C988E7@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<71ee4179-6147-634e-3da5-e3868252f255@digido.com>
Message-ID: <236BB400-90B0-4915-93D0-BF15926DCE90@mastering-media.co.uk>


Hi Bob,
> Ian, in your copious free time
> 
You?re hilarious ?
> you should capture both ways. If you detect anything other than just a gain shift, then we should alert Buddy and maybe he can get that changed.
> 
> And in fact, if you can give me links to that choral music I'd like to check it and measure it
> 


It was one or other of these albums, possibly both:

https://music.apple.com/gb/album/hodie-an-english-christmas-collection-re-mastered/73233052 <https://music.apple.com/gb/album/hodie-an-english-christmas-collection-re-mastered/73233052>

https://music.apple.com/gb/album/on-christmas-day/695609721 <https://music.apple.com/gb/album/on-christmas-day/695609721>

(Both are beautiful BTW, although I prefer Britten?s Ceremony sung by a boys' choir rather than adults)

I just previewed the first track of ?Hodie" and it has a +9 Sound Check value using iTunes in Mojave, which takes it to +0.1 dBFS @ 2:54 and sure enough it clips audibly, so no limiting in this case.

Ah hell, now I?m going to have to check it on iPhone?!

Ian
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From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Wed Jan 19 20:11:31 2022
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 19:11:31 +0000
Subject: [MLA] Apple seems to have turned Soundcheck ON by default...
In-Reply-To: <236BB400-90B0-4915-93D0-BF15926DCE90@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <A01EED41-47FF-4659-AB12-A9704968AA1C@grimmaudio.com>
	<FFFB9CB2-E9F9-4502-BB6F-C2525FD81C58@icloud.com>
	<296064EE-653C-4121-85E8-278573A1B6E9@grimmaudio.com>
	<817C944E-697F-40D8-8E33-11F9E7635B87@me.com>
	<0B8FE147-FE7E-4772-B5D6-3AABF644A970@grimmaudio.com>
	<509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
	<bfa1c9a0-df3e-18a8-f57e-73b2094486b4@digido.com>
	<FCD25CE1-8357-4E5E-9EA3-31CB0C75F1B5@grimmaudio.com>
	<EFF4AAA5-4772-4A00-B235-E7E0A0C988E7@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<71ee4179-6147-634e-3da5-e3868252f255@digido.com>
	<236BB400-90B0-4915-93D0-BF15926DCE90@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C84DBB58-5D22-4FEE-9F60-1CF423A82534@mastering-media.co.uk>


Confirmed, sadly - iPhone 11 with iOS 15.1 has pretty blatant DRC happening, monitored via a lightning-to-analogue converter. 

It?s pretty aggressive so I hesitate to call it limiting - here are the waveforms for Sound Check Off (top) and On, level-matched by ear:





This is about 1:30 into the first Track of ?On Christmas Day? ?

Ian




> On 19 Jan 2022, at 16:54, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Bob,
>> Ian, in your copious free time
>> 
> You?re hilarious ?
>> you should capture both ways. If you detect anything other than just a gain shift, then we should alert Buddy and maybe he can get that changed.
>> 
>> And in fact, if you can give me links to that choral music I'd like to check it and measure it
>> 
> 
> 
> It was one or other of these albums, possibly both:
> 
> https://music.apple.com/gb/album/hodie-an-english-christmas-collection-re-mastered/73233052 <https://music.apple.com/gb/album/hodie-an-english-christmas-collection-re-mastered/73233052>
> 
> https://music.apple.com/gb/album/on-christmas-day/695609721 <https://music.apple.com/gb/album/on-christmas-day/695609721>
> 
> (Both are beautiful BTW, although I prefer Britten?s Ceremony sung by a boys' choir rather than adults)
> 
> I just previewed the first track of ?Hodie" and it has a +9 Sound Check value using iTunes in Mojave, which takes it to +0.1 dBFS @ 2:54 and sure enough it clips audibly, so no limiting in this case.
> 
> Ah hell, now I?m going to have to check it on iPhone?!
> 
> Ian

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From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Wed Jan 19 20:14:03 2022
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 19:14:03 +0000
Subject: [MLA] Apple seems to have turned Soundcheck ON by default...
In-Reply-To: <C84DBB58-5D22-4FEE-9F60-1CF423A82534@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <A01EED41-47FF-4659-AB12-A9704968AA1C@grimmaudio.com>
	<FFFB9CB2-E9F9-4502-BB6F-C2525FD81C58@icloud.com>
	<296064EE-653C-4121-85E8-278573A1B6E9@grimmaudio.com>
	<817C944E-697F-40D8-8E33-11F9E7635B87@me.com>
	<0B8FE147-FE7E-4772-B5D6-3AABF644A970@grimmaudio.com>
	<509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
	<bfa1c9a0-df3e-18a8-f57e-73b2094486b4@digido.com>
	<FCD25CE1-8357-4E5E-9EA3-31CB0C75F1B5@grimmaudio.com>
	<EFF4AAA5-4772-4A00-B235-E7E0A0C988E7@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<71ee4179-6147-634e-3da5-e3868252f255@digido.com>
	<236BB400-90B0-4915-93D0-BF15926DCE90@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<C84DBB58-5D22-4FEE-9F60-1CF423A82534@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <8CBDBFBC-7557-49E0-A8DF-E01BBB03ADFE@mastering-media.co.uk>


Even clearer with a larger waveform scale. One step forward? OTOH maybe most classical listeners don?t use Sound Check??







> On 19 Jan 2022, at 19:11, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> Confirmed, sadly - iPhone 11 with iOS 15.1 has pretty blatant DRC happening, monitored via a lightning-to-analogue converter. 
> 
> It?s pretty aggressive so I hesitate to call it limiting - here are the waveforms for Sound Check Off (top) and On, level-matched by ear:
> 
> 
> <Sound Check DRC.png>
> 
> 
> This is about 1:30 into the first Track of ?On Christmas Day? ?
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 19 Jan 2022, at 16:54, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk <mailto:ian at mastering-media.co.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Bob,
>>> Ian, in your copious free time
>>> 
>> You?re hilarious ?
>>> you should capture both ways. If you detect anything other than just a gain shift, then we should alert Buddy and maybe he can get that changed.
>>> 
>>> And in fact, if you can give me links to that choral music I'd like to check it and measure it
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> It was one or other of these albums, possibly both:
>> 
>> https://music.apple.com/gb/album/hodie-an-english-christmas-collection-re-mastered/73233052 <https://music.apple.com/gb/album/hodie-an-english-christmas-collection-re-mastered/73233052>
>> 
>> https://music.apple.com/gb/album/on-christmas-day/695609721 <https://music.apple.com/gb/album/on-christmas-day/695609721>
>> 
>> (Both are beautiful BTW, although I prefer Britten?s Ceremony sung by a boys' choir rather than adults)
>> 
>> I just previewed the first track of ?Hodie" and it has a +9 Sound Check value using iTunes in Mojave, which takes it to +0.1 dBFS @ 2:54 and sure enough it clips audibly, so no limiting in this case.
>> 
>> Ah hell, now I?m going to have to check it on iPhone?!
>> 
>> Ian
> 

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From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Wed Jan 19 20:19:47 2022
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 19:19:47 +0000
Subject: [MLA] Apple seems to have turned Soundcheck ON by default...
In-Reply-To: <8CBDBFBC-7557-49E0-A8DF-E01BBB03ADFE@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <A01EED41-47FF-4659-AB12-A9704968AA1C@grimmaudio.com>
	<FFFB9CB2-E9F9-4502-BB6F-C2525FD81C58@icloud.com>
	<296064EE-653C-4121-85E8-278573A1B6E9@grimmaudio.com>
	<817C944E-697F-40D8-8E33-11F9E7635B87@me.com>
	<0B8FE147-FE7E-4772-B5D6-3AABF644A970@grimmaudio.com>
	<509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
	<bfa1c9a0-df3e-18a8-f57e-73b2094486b4@digido.com>
	<FCD25CE1-8357-4E5E-9EA3-31CB0C75F1B5@grimmaudio.com>
	<EFF4AAA5-4772-4A00-B235-E7E0A0C988E7@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<71ee4179-6147-634e-3da5-e3868252f255@digido.com>
	<236BB400-90B0-4915-93D0-BF15926DCE90@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<C84DBB58-5D22-4FEE-9F60-1CF423A82534@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<8CBDBFBC-7557-49E0-A8DF-E01BBB03ADFE@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C47243C7-795D-4D9C-AD54-979350FAD483@mastering-media.co.uk>


This was playing from Apple Music BTW, and from the album so in Album Mode. Presumably using ?loudest track? would fix it. However in Track mode it will presumably be worse, in some cases.

On a more positive note, they are obviously actively focusing on audio stuff at the moment, because Atmos, so hopefully it can be fixed !

Ian



> On 19 Jan 2022, at 19:14, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> Even clearer with a larger waveform scale. One step forward? OTOH maybe most classical listeners don?t use Sound Check??
> 
> 
> <Sound Check DRC.png>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 19 Jan 2022, at 19:11, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk <mailto:ian at mastering-media.co.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Confirmed, sadly - iPhone 11 with iOS 15.1 has pretty blatant DRC happening, monitored via a lightning-to-analogue converter. 
>> 
>> It?s pretty aggressive so I hesitate to call it limiting - here are the waveforms for Sound Check Off (top) and On, level-matched by ear:
>> 
>> 
>> <Sound Check DRC.png>
>> 
>> 
>> This is about 1:30 into the first Track of ?On Christmas Day? ?
>> 
>> Ian
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 19 Jan 2022, at 16:54, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk <mailto:ian at mastering-media.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Bob,
>>>> Ian, in your copious free time
>>>> 
>>> You?re hilarious ?
>>>> you should capture both ways. If you detect anything other than just a gain shift, then we should alert Buddy and maybe he can get that changed.
>>>> 
>>>> And in fact, if you can give me links to that choral music I'd like to check it and measure it
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It was one or other of these albums, possibly both:
>>> 
>>> https://music.apple.com/gb/album/hodie-an-english-christmas-collection-re-mastered/73233052 <https://music.apple.com/gb/album/hodie-an-english-christmas-collection-re-mastered/73233052>
>>> 
>>> https://music.apple.com/gb/album/on-christmas-day/695609721 <https://music.apple.com/gb/album/on-christmas-day/695609721>
>>> 
>>> (Both are beautiful BTW, although I prefer Britten?s Ceremony sung by a boys' choir rather than adults)
>>> 
>>> I just previewed the first track of ?Hodie" and it has a +9 Sound Check value using iTunes in Mojave, which takes it to +0.1 dBFS @ 2:54 and sure enough it clips audibly, so no limiting in this case.
>>> 
>>> Ah hell, now I?m going to have to check it on iPhone?!
>>> 
>>> Ian
>> 
> 

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From bobkatz at digido.com  Wed Jan 19 21:58:10 2022
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 15:58:10 -0500
Subject: [MLA] Apple seems to have turned Soundcheck ON by default...
In-Reply-To: <C84DBB58-5D22-4FEE-9F60-1CF423A82534@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <A01EED41-47FF-4659-AB12-A9704968AA1C@grimmaudio.com>
	<FFFB9CB2-E9F9-4502-BB6F-C2525FD81C58@icloud.com>
	<296064EE-653C-4121-85E8-278573A1B6E9@grimmaudio.com>
	<817C944E-697F-40D8-8E33-11F9E7635B87@me.com>
	<0B8FE147-FE7E-4772-B5D6-3AABF644A970@grimmaudio.com>
	<509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
	<bfa1c9a0-df3e-18a8-f57e-73b2094486b4@digido.com>
	<FCD25CE1-8357-4E5E-9EA3-31CB0C75F1B5@grimmaudio.com>
	<EFF4AAA5-4772-4A00-B235-E7E0A0C988E7@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<71ee4179-6147-634e-3da5-e3868252f255@digido.com>
	<236BB400-90B0-4915-93D0-BF15926DCE90@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<C84DBB58-5D22-4FEE-9F60-1CF423A82534@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <8f136fd8-c4c9-b7ee-4225-e30e1378d2e2@digido.com>

Oy, that's bad. Sound Check is not supposed to implement DRC. Please 
Measure the PLR of each version. That would tell us something to tell 
Buddy about if it's happening.

I'm not subscribed to Apple Music. It's just one more service I don't 
want to pay for. If I sign in, can I download this one album without 
beig forced to be a subscriber?


Bob


On 1/19/22 2:11 PM, Ian Shepherd wrote:
>
> Confirmed, sadly - iPhone 11 with iOS 15.1 has pretty blatant DRC 
> happening, monitored via a lightning-to-analogue converter.
>
> It?s pretty aggressive so I hesitate to call it limiting - here are 
> the waveforms for Sound Check Off (top) and On, level-matched by ear:
>
>
>
>
> This is about 1:30 into the first Track of ?On Christmas Day? ?
>
> Ian
>
>
>
>
>> On 19 Jan 2022, at 16:54, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Bob,
>>>
>>> Ian, in your copious free time
>>>
>> You?re hilarious ?
>>>
>>> you should capture both ways. If you detect anything other than just 
>>> a gain shift, then we should alert Buddy and maybe he can get that 
>>> changed.
>>>
>>> And in fact, if you can give me links to that choral music I'd like 
>>> to check it and measure it
>>>
>>
>> It was one or other of these albums, possibly both:
>>
>> https://music.apple.com/gb/album/hodie-an-english-christmas-collection-re-mastered/73233052
>>
>> https://music.apple.com/gb/album/on-christmas-day/695609721
>>
>> (Both are beautiful BTW, although I prefer Britten?s Ceremony sung by 
>> a boys' choir rather than adults)
>>
>> I just previewed the first track of ?Hodie" and it has a +9 Sound 
>> Check value using iTunes in Mojave, which takes it to +0.1 dBFS @ 
>> 2:54 and sure enough it clips audibly, so no limiting in this case.
>>
>> Ah hell, now I?m going to have to check it on iPhone?!
>>
>> Ian
>
-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio* Digital Domain 
Website <https://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.
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From eelco at grimmaudio.com  Fri Jan 21 00:15:21 2022
From: eelco at grimmaudio.com (Grimm | Eelco)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 00:15:21 +0100
Subject: [MLA] Apple seems to have turned Soundcheck ON by default...
In-Reply-To: <8f136fd8-c4c9-b7ee-4225-e30e1378d2e2@digido.com>
References: <A01EED41-47FF-4659-AB12-A9704968AA1C@grimmaudio.com>
	<FFFB9CB2-E9F9-4502-BB6F-C2525FD81C58@icloud.com>
	<296064EE-653C-4121-85E8-278573A1B6E9@grimmaudio.com>
	<817C944E-697F-40D8-8E33-11F9E7635B87@me.com>
	<0B8FE147-FE7E-4772-B5D6-3AABF644A970@grimmaudio.com>
	<509CE041-CEB7-4C76-A83F-7CCCA4D778DA@grimmaudio.com>
	<bfa1c9a0-df3e-18a8-f57e-73b2094486b4@digido.com>
	<FCD25CE1-8357-4E5E-9EA3-31CB0C75F1B5@grimmaudio.com>
	<EFF4AAA5-4772-4A00-B235-E7E0A0C988E7@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<71ee4179-6147-634e-3da5-e3868252f255@digido.com>
	<236BB400-90B0-4915-93D0-BF15926DCE90@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<C84DBB58-5D22-4FEE-9F60-1CF423A82534@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<8f136fd8-c4c9-b7ee-4225-e30e1378d2e2@digido.com>
Message-ID: <B87838BC-3F3F-4CCF-9935-55F54583D952@grimmaudio.com>

Hi Ian,

This is actually something important to report to Buddy. He?s looking for data to convince his people from adopting Album Normalization ?td1008 style? in stead of the ?average loudness? style that?s currently implemented. So indeed, if you can give us the PLR of each version we can send a clear text to him.

Thanks!

Cheers,
Eelco

> On 19 Jan 2022, at 21:58, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
> 
> Oy, that's bad. Sound Check is not supposed to implement DRC. Please Measure the PLR of each version. That would tell us something to tell Buddy about if it's happening.
> 
> I'm not subscribed to Apple Music. It's just one more service I don't want to pay for. If I sign in, can I download this one album without beig forced to be a subscriber?
> 
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/19/22 2:11 PM, Ian Shepherd wrote:
>> 
>> Confirmed, sadly - iPhone 11 with iOS 15.1 has pretty blatant DRC happening, monitored via a lightning-to-analogue converter. 
>> 
>> It?s pretty aggressive so I hesitate to call it limiting - here are the waveforms for Sound Check Off (top) and On, level-matched by ear:
>> 
>> 
>> <Sound%20Check%20DRC.png>
>> 
>> 
>> This is about 1:30 into the first Track of ?On Christmas Day? ?
>> 
>> Ian
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 19 Jan 2022, at 16:54, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk <mailto:ian at mastering-media.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Bob,
>>>> Ian, in your copious free time 
>>>> 
>>> You?re hilarious ?
>>>> you should capture both ways. If you detect anything other than just a gain shift, then we should alert Buddy and maybe he can get that changed.
>>>> 
>>>> And in fact, if you can give me links to that choral music I'd like to check it and measure it
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It was one or other of these albums, possibly both:
>>> 
>>> https://music.apple.com/gb/album/hodie-an-english-christmas-collection-re-mastered/73233052 <https://music.apple.com/gb/album/hodie-an-english-christmas-collection-re-mastered/73233052>
>>> 
>>> https://music.apple.com/gb/album/on-christmas-day/695609721 <https://music.apple.com/gb/album/on-christmas-day/695609721>
>>> 
>>> (Both are beautiful BTW, although I prefer Britten?s Ceremony sung by a boys' choir rather than adults)
>>> 
>>> I just previewed the first track of ?Hodie" and it has a +9 Sound Check value using iTunes in Mojave, which takes it to +0.1 dBFS @ 2:54 and sure enough it clips audibly, so no limiting in this case.
>>> 
>>> Ah hell, now I?m going to have to check it on iPhone?!
>>> 
>>> Ian
>> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> If you want good sound on your album, come to
> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
> Author: Mastering Audio
> Digital Domain Website <https://www.digido.com/>
> 
> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
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