From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Wed Feb 23 12:38:11 2022
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 11:38:11 +0000
Subject: [MLA] iTunes NOT using -16 LUFS yet ?
Message-ID: <29336B02-F42B-4DFA-B271-99557CE7EA1B@mastering-media.co.uk>


Hi All,

Just a heads-up about this. We?re planning an update to Loudness Penalty to reflect the news that iTunes is going to use LUFS for Sound Check, but I wanted to warn you that in our tests it doesn?t seem to be working as intended, even on a brand new M1 Mac with the latest software updates and recently released material.

I have other examples but specifically Bob drew my attention to this song:

https://music.apple.com/gb/album/the-joker-and-the-queen-feat-taylor-swift/1608894948?i=1608894952 <https://music.apple.com/gb/album/the-joker-and-the-queen-feat-taylor-swift/1608894948?i=1608894952>

Using the afinfo command in Terminal it reports the following results:

> aa itu loudness: -8.5
> sound check volume normalization gain: -7.50 dB

This would result in a playback loudness of -16 LUFS, but measuring the actual value gives a result of -15.1 LUFS, which is a normalization change of only -6.6 dB

Whereas the "Song Info>File>Volume" value in iTunes reports -6.7, which is obviously a very close match to the measured result. Since this is the ?Legacy? Sound Check value, this song and other examples like it make me think that LUFS values aren?t being used yet, on Mac OS at least.

Testing the results from iOS is tricky because of Apple?s copy protection, but if we make any progress with this I?ll let you know.

I?ve emailed Buddy to ask about this, and will let you know if I get a reply - perhaps it?s just a glitch!

Either way I wanted to make you aware so that we don?t jump the gun announcing the change.

Cheers,

Ian



***
Ian Shepherd
Mastering Media Ltd <http://mastering-media.co.uk/> - Audio Mastering, Blu-ray and DVD Excellence
http://twitter.com/ianshepherd <http://twitter.com/ianshepherd>

 <http://twitter.com/ianshepherd>Mastering Media Ltd,
Kemp House, 152 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX
Registered in England and Wales 
Company No. 073500450

Tel. +44(0)1487 842498

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From bobkatz at digido.com  Wed Feb 23 17:18:16 2022
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 11:18:16 -0500
Subject: [MLA] iTunes NOT using -16 LUFS yet ?
In-Reply-To: <29336B02-F42B-4DFA-B271-99557CE7EA1B@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <29336B02-F42B-4DFA-B271-99557CE7EA1B@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <561ce0a7-3d58-268c-f494-3f0854cc51e8@digido.com>


On 2/23/22 6:38 AM, Ian Shepherd wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Just a heads-up about this. We?re planning an update to Loudness 
> Penalty to reflect the news that iTunes is going to use LUFS for Sound 
> Check, but I wanted to warn you that in our tests it doesn?t seem to 
> be working as intended, even on a brand new M1 Mac with the latest 
> software updates and recently released material.
>
> I have other examples but specifically Bob drew my attention to this song:
>
> https://music.apple.com/gb/album/the-joker-and-the-queen-feat-taylor-swift/1608894948?i=1608894952
>
> Using the afinfo command in Terminal it reports the following results:
>
>> aa itu loudness: -8.5
>> sound check volume normalization gain: -7.50 dB
>
> This would result in a playback loudness of -16 LUFS, but measuring 
> the actual value gives a result of -15.1 LUFS, which is a 
> normalization change of only -6.6 dB


Oy vey.

Well, I agree, this means that the legacy SoundCheck is being used. We 
need some clarification from Buddy Judge.

Let's compile this information and alert Buddy Judge. At the least he 
will have an explanation.


>
> Whereas the "Song Info>File>Volume" value in iTunes reports -6.7, 
> which is obviously a very close match to the measured result. Since 
> this is the ?Legacy? Sound Check value, this song and other examples 
> like it make me think that LUFS values aren?t being used yet, on Mac 
> OS at least.
>
> Testing the results from iOS is tricky because of Apple?s copy 
> protection, but if we make any progress with this I?ll let you know.
>
> I?ve emailed Buddy to ask about this, and will let you know if I get a 
> reply - perhaps it?s just a glitch!
>
> Either way I wanted to make you aware so that we don?t jump the gun 
> announcing the change.
>

I'm glad you wrote him!


Best,



Bob





> Cheers,
>
> Ian
>
>
>
> ***
> Ian Shepherd
> Mastering Media Ltd <http://mastering-media.co.uk/>?- Audio Mastering, 
> Blu-ray and DVD?Excellence
> http://twitter.com/ianshepherd
>
> <http://twitter.com/ianshepherd>Mastering Media Ltd,
> Kemp House, 152 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX
> Registered in England and Wales
> Company No. 073500450
>
> Tel. +44(0)1487 842498
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio* Digital Domain 
Website <https://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.
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From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Thu Feb 24 12:36:17 2022
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2022 11:36:17 +0000
Subject: [MLA] iTunes NOT using -16 LUFS yet ?
In-Reply-To: <561ce0a7-3d58-268c-f494-3f0854cc51e8@digido.com>
References: <29336B02-F42B-4DFA-B271-99557CE7EA1B@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<561ce0a7-3d58-268c-f494-3f0854cc51e8@digido.com>
Message-ID: <0F1BEFA2-9DD4-4301-87A9-E70078E4CE0C@mastering-media.co.uk>


Hi All,

Buddy got back to me quickly - he says there is a known issue with the macOS Music app where songs bought and downloaded still use the old Sound Check value, which they?re working on. This explains the strange M1 Mac result.

I also tested from my iPhone this morning which is normalising to -16 LUFS, even with older files like Death Magnetic, which is great news.

However my Mojave iTunes is still using the Legacy Sound Check setting, I?ve asked Buddy if there will be an update to fix this and will let you know what he says.

So, basically good news - hopefully they?ll fix that bug fairly quickly, and hopefully also roll LUFS back to older Mac OS versions. Lots of musicians and engineers use these old versions, so it will be a source of plenty of confusion if they don?t...

Ian



> On 23 Feb 2022, at 16:18, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/23/22 6:38 AM, Ian Shepherd wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> Just a heads-up about this. We?re planning an update to Loudness Penalty to reflect the news that iTunes is going to use LUFS for Sound Check, but I wanted to warn you that in our tests it doesn?t seem to be working as intended, even on a brand new M1 Mac with the latest software updates and recently released material.
>> 
>> I have other examples but specifically Bob drew my attention to this song:
>> 
>> https://music.apple.com/gb/album/the-joker-and-the-queen-feat-taylor-swift/1608894948?i=1608894952 <https://music.apple.com/gb/album/the-joker-and-the-queen-feat-taylor-swift/1608894948?i=1608894952>
>> 
>> Using the afinfo command in Terminal it reports the following results:
>> 
>>> aa itu loudness: -8.5
>>> sound check volume normalization gain: -7.50 dB
>> 
>> This would result in a playback loudness of -16 LUFS, but measuring the actual value gives a result of -15.1 LUFS, which is a normalization change of only -6.6 dB
> 
> Oy vey. 
> 
> Well, I agree, this means that the legacy SoundCheck is being used. We need some clarification from Buddy Judge. 
> 
> Let's compile this information and alert Buddy Judge. At the least he will have an explanation. 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> Whereas the "Song Info>File>Volume" value in iTunes reports -6.7, which is obviously a very close match to the measured result. Since this is the ?Legacy? Sound Check value, this song and other examples like it make me think that LUFS values aren?t being used yet, on Mac OS at least.
>> 
>> Testing the results from iOS is tricky because of Apple?s copy protection, but if we make any progress with this I?ll let you know.
>> 
>> I?ve emailed Buddy to ask about this, and will let you know if I get a reply - perhaps it?s just a glitch!
>> 
>> Either way I wanted to make you aware so that we don?t jump the gun announcing the change.
>> 
> 
> I'm glad you wrote him!
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Ian
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ***
>> Ian Shepherd
>> Mastering Media Ltd <http://mastering-media.co.uk/> - Audio Mastering, Blu-ray and DVD Excellence
>> http://twitter.com/ianshepherd <http://twitter.com/ianshepherd>
>> 
>>  <http://twitter.com/ianshepherd>Mastering Media Ltd,
>> Kemp House, 152 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX
>> Registered in England and Wales 
>> Company No. 073500450
>> 
>> Tel. +44(0)1487 842498
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
> -- 
> 
> 
> If you want good sound on your album, come to
> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
> Author: Mastering Audio
> Digital Domain Website <https://www.digido.com/>
> 
> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

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