From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Thu Apr 28 14:54:01 2022
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:54:01 +0100
Subject: [MLA] 95% normalized
Message-ID: <8D124EEA-21FB-46A7-AF59-87F5201313C2@mastering-media.co.uk>


Hi All,

Now Apple are enabling Sound Check by default, I got curious about normalization statistics. I was really pleased by what I found, so I?m sharing it with you in case it?s helpful when talking to any of your clients?

https://productionadvice.co.uk/95-percent-normalized/

Of course there are plenty of places where normalization isn?t active, but another positive bit of news recently is that I measured the first 30 mins of Soundcloud?s Top 50 playlist, and the maximum short-term loudness of most songs was typically -7 LUFS except for very brief moments, and maybe half the songs maxed out at -10 or -11 LUFS.

Of course we would still like it to be lower, but at least it wasn?t the -4 LUFS fiasco that I feared !

Cheers,

Ian 


***
Ian Shepherd
Mastering Media Ltd <http://mastering-media.co.uk/> - Audio Mastering, Blu-ray and DVD Excellence
http://twitter.com/ianshepherd <http://twitter.com/ianshepherd>

 <http://twitter.com/ianshepherd>Mastering Media Ltd,
Kemp House, 152 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX
Registered in England and Wales 
Company No. 073500450

Tel. +44(0)1487 842498

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://grimmaudio.nl/pipermail/mla_grimmaudio.nl/attachments/20220428/b7bd2d44/attachment.html>

From bobkatz at digido.com  Thu Apr 28 15:50:08 2022
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:50:08 -0400
Subject: [MLA] 95% normalized
In-Reply-To: <8D124EEA-21FB-46A7-AF59-87F5201313C2@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <8D124EEA-21FB-46A7-AF59-87F5201313C2@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ddc743f3-6f1f-f875-e172-9b4b7a6a9f74@digido.com>

Ian: I for one appreciate your incredible enthusiasm on your blog.


Well.....??? using YouTube as justification for what is ultimately an 
estimated uni-dimensional statistical value doesn't impress me. What 
impresses me is your marketing ability. I am so tempted to tell people 
that Ian Shepherd says that music platforms are already 95% normalized!

9 out of 10 doctors say so, too!



At least we are moving forward and thanks for the article.


One thing we all are conveniently ignoring is that if you master 
something stupid loud, so highly compressed and distorted, it will sound 
louder than shit even if played 2-3 dB down in LUFS or SPL compared to 
more dynamic material. So "stupid loud" is a way for assholes to "beat" 
the normalized system.

I encounter this all the time in our bedroom with speech. MSNBC is a 
highly compressed 24 hour news station. It's the squishy, spongey kind 
of compression which I'm sure you know. So it's not "stupid loud" but 
even so it illustrates what we're up against. Even though MSNBC is 
loudness normalized with dialnorm, it sounds so unrelentless that I 
typically turn down the bedroom monitor 3-4 dB below that of more 
dynamic stations and material with the same dialnorm value.


Bob



On 4/28/22 8:54 AM, Ian Shepherd wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Now Apple are enabling Sound Check by default, I got curious about 
> normalization statistics. I was really pleased by what I found, so I?m 
> sharing it with you in case it?s helpful when talking to any of your 
> clients?
>
> https://productionadvice.co.uk/95-percent-normalized/
>
> Of course there are plenty of places where normalization isn?t active, 
> but another positive bit of news recently is that I measured the first 
> 30 mins of Soundcloud?s Top 50 playlist, and the maximum short-term 
> loudness of most songs was typically -7 LUFS except for very brief 
> moments, and maybe half the songs maxed out at -10 or -11 LUFS.
>
> Of course we would still like it to be lower, but at least it wasn?t 
> the -4 LUFS fiasco that I feared !
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian
>
>
> ***
> Ian Shepherd
> Mastering Media Ltd <http://mastering-media.co.uk/>?- Audio Mastering, 
> Blu-ray and DVD?Excellence
> http://twitter.com/ianshepherd
>
> <http://twitter.com/ianshepherd>Mastering Media Ltd,
> Kemp House, 152 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX
> Registered in England and Wales
> Company No. 073500450
>
> Tel. +44(0)1487 842498
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio* Digital Domain 
Website <https://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://grimmaudio.nl/pipermail/mla_grimmaudio.nl/attachments/20220428/71f59f46/attachment.html>

From kevin.gross at comcast.net  Fri Apr 29 02:05:02 2022
From: kevin.gross at comcast.net (Kevin Gross)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 18:05:02 -0600
Subject: [MLA] 95% normalized
In-Reply-To: <ddc743f3-6f1f-f875-e172-9b4b7a6a9f74@digido.com>
References: <8D124EEA-21FB-46A7-AF59-87F5201313C2@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<ddc743f3-6f1f-f875-e172-9b4b7a6a9f74@digido.com>
Message-ID: <CALw1_Q3PirfCAFpGM_XvQt0m2D0PxS-_4JH0NFP=oxO2sSPY-g@mail.gmail.com>

Bob, it sounds from your description that turning down MSNBC doesn't
exactly fix the problem. Loudness normalization should not be confused with
annoyance normalization.

It used to be that I would have to adjust volume through a shuffled
playlist. Now that things are normalized, I still need to skip the annoying
tracks

-kg

On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 7:50 AM Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:

> Ian: I for one appreciate your incredible enthusiasm on your blog.
>
>
> Well.....    using YouTube as justification for what is ultimately an
> estimated uni-dimensional statistical value doesn't impress me. What
> impresses me is your marketing ability. I am so tempted to tell people that
> Ian Shepherd says that music platforms are already 95% normalized!
>
> 9 out of 10 doctors say so, too!
>
>
>
> At least we are moving forward and thanks for the article.
>
>
> One thing we all are conveniently ignoring is that if you master something
> stupid loud, so highly compressed and distorted, it will sound louder than
> shit even if played 2-3 dB down in LUFS or SPL compared to more dynamic
> material. So "stupid loud" is a way for assholes to "beat" the normalized
> system.
>
> I encounter this all the time in our bedroom with speech. MSNBC is a
> highly compressed 24 hour news station. It's the squishy, spongey kind of
> compression which I'm sure you know. So it's not "stupid loud" but even so
> it illustrates what we're up against.  Even though MSNBC is loudness
> normalized with dialnorm, it sounds so unrelentless that I typically turn
> down the bedroom monitor 3-4 dB below that of more dynamic stations and
> material with the same dialnorm value.
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> On 4/28/22 8:54 AM, Ian Shepherd wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Now Apple are enabling Sound Check by default, I got curious about
> normalization statistics. I was really pleased by what I found, so I?m
> sharing it with you in case it?s helpful when talking to any of your
> clients?
>
> https://productionadvice.co.uk/95-percent-normalized/
>
> Of course there are plenty of places where normalization isn?t active, but
> another positive bit of news recently is that I measured the first 30 mins
> of Soundcloud?s Top 50 playlist, and the maximum short-term loudness of
> most songs was typically -7 LUFS except for very brief moments, and maybe
> half the songs maxed out at -10 or -11 LUFS.
>
> Of course we would still like it to be lower, but at least it wasn?t the
> -4 LUFS fiasco that I feared !
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ian
>
>
> ***
> Ian Shepherd
> Mastering Media Ltd <http://mastering-media.co.uk/> - Audio Mastering,
> Blu-ray and DVD Excellence
> http://twitter.com/ianshepherd
>
> <http://twitter.com/ianshepherd>Mastering Media Ltd,
> Kemp House, 152 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX
> Registered in England and Wales
> Company No. 073500450
>
> Tel. +44(0)1487 842498
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing listMLA at grimmaudio.nlhttp://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>
> --
>
>
>
> If you want good sound on your album, come to
> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
> Author: *Mastering Audio*Digital Domain Website <https://www.digido.com/>
>
> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://grimmaudio.nl/pipermail/mla_grimmaudio.nl/attachments/20220428/3bc5d4bc/attachment-0001.html>

From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Fri Apr 29 13:03:49 2022
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 12:03:49 +0100
Subject: [MLA] 95% normalized
In-Reply-To: <ddc743f3-6f1f-f875-e172-9b4b7a6a9f74@digido.com>
References: <8D124EEA-21FB-46A7-AF59-87F5201313C2@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<ddc743f3-6f1f-f875-e172-9b4b7a6a9f74@digido.com>
Message-ID: <7796CD8D-7D3E-43D4-B01E-610C57DCCA4F@mastering-media.co.uk>


Hi Bob,
> Ian: I for one appreciate your incredible enthusiasm on your blog. 
> 
Thanks - I think...
> Well.....    using YouTube as justification for what is ultimately an estimated uni-dimensional statistical value doesn't impress me.
> 
Can you say more about this ? The two different sources in the blog post I link to show both show the total reported number of streaming service users is (was in Q1 2021) about 500 million, and YouTube reported that 2 billion of their users consume music on the platform. So that?s a ballpark of 80% normalization as a minimum, in terms of where people are exposed to new music. (Which is the key - once someone has decided they like something they?ll do so regardless of the loudness)

So yes there is going to be plenty of inaccuracy in those figures, but the bottom line is that YouTube vastly outweighs the dedicated music platforms. And since YouTube is entirely normalized, that makes all the quibbling about default settings, users who disable it and the actual number of users on each particular service kind of irrelevant, doesn?t it ? I mean the ?real? number might be 90% or even as low as 80% perhaps but that?s still a massive proportion.

Or have I missed something and made an embarrassing error ?
> What impresses me is your marketing ability. I am so tempted to tell people that Ian Shepherd says that music platforms are already 95% normalized! 
> 
> 9 out of 10 doctors say so, too!
> 
I think that?s an unfair comparison, ?9 out of 10 doctors? is a deliberately manipulated figure, the numbers I?ve used are a genuine attempt to compare how many listeners are on each service.
> At least we are moving forward and thanks for the article. 
> 
Do you know the phrase ?damned with faint praise? ? I regularly get comments from major-name mastering engineers telling me everything I say about this topic is nonsense, so if all I?m doing is a great sales job on something that is actually flawed logic, maybe I won?t bother ?

Ian
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://grimmaudio.nl/pipermail/mla_grimmaudio.nl/attachments/20220429/19aa93ca/attachment.html>

From bobkatz at digido.com  Fri Apr 29 22:58:50 2022
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 16:58:50 -0400
Subject: [MLA] 95% normalized
In-Reply-To: <7796CD8D-7D3E-43D4-B01E-610C57DCCA4F@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <8D124EEA-21FB-46A7-AF59-87F5201313C2@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<ddc743f3-6f1f-f875-e172-9b4b7a6a9f74@digido.com>
	<7796CD8D-7D3E-43D4-B01E-610C57DCCA4F@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2e5636cf-c534-7b15-7f65-aa84b8c901dc@digido.com>


On 4/29/22 7:03 AM, Ian Shepherd wrote:
>
> Hi Bob,
>>
>> Ian: I for one appreciate your incredible enthusiasm on your blog.
>>
> Thanks - I think...
>>
>> Well.....??? using YouTube as justification for what is ultimately an 
>> estimated uni-dimensional statistical value doesn't impress me.
>>
> Can you say more about this ? The two different sources in the blog 
> post I link to show both show the total reported number of streaming 
> service users is (was in Q1 2021) about 500 million, and YouTube 
> reported that 2 billion of their users consume music on the platform. 
> So that?s a ballpark of 80% normalization as a minimum, in terms of 
> where people are exposed to new music. (Which is the key - once 
> someone has decided they like something they?ll do so regardless of 
> the loudness)
>
> So yes there is going to be plenty of inaccuracy in those figures, but 
> the bottom line is that YouTube vastly outweighs the dedicated music 
> platforms. And since YouTube is entirely normalized, that makes all 
> the quibbling about default settings, users who disable it and the 
> actual number of users on each particular service kind of irrelevant, 
> doesn?t it ? I mean the ?real? number might be 90% or even as low as 
> 80% perhaps but that?s still a massive proportion.
>
> Or have I missed something and made an embarrassing error ?


Not embarrassing. But I don't get how you are counting in what is 
largely a video streaming service.... I can see musicians completely 
ignoring YouTube. They want to know what Spotify and Apple are doing. 
And yes, since they are normalized (with Apple slowly getting there).. 
you've made your point. But statistically I would NOT include YouTube in 
a percentage of MUSIC streaming services.


>> What impresses me is your marketing ability. I am so tempted to tell 
>> people that Ian Shepherd says that music platforms are already 95% 
>> normalized!
>>
>> 9 out of 10 doctors say so, too!
>>
> I think that?s an unfair comparison, ?9 out of 10 doctors? is a 
> deliberately manipulated figure, the numbers I?ve used are a genuine 
> attempt to compare how many listeners are on each service.
>>
>> At least we are moving forward and thanks for the article.
>>
> Do you know the phrase ?damned with faint praise? ? I regularly get 
> comments from major-name mastering engineers telling me everything I 
> say about this topic is nonsense, so if all I?m doing is a great sales 
> job on something that is actually flawed logic, maybe I won?t bother ?
>
> Ian


I really mean what I said, you're doing a great job! And yes, you're 
practicing the best kind of marketing: putting a good face on the 
current situation. That is marketing....? on behalf of and for the 
benefit of us critical music producers. I just don't think it's fair to 
create a % number of MUSIC streaming. I think to be fair you must not 
include YouTube in your statistic. YouTube videos are often amateur 
productions with amateur soundtracks, and they must be accompanied by 
video. What's the % if you don't include Youtube?



Bob




-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio* Digital Domain 
Website <https://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://grimmaudio.nl/pipermail/mla_grimmaudio.nl/attachments/20220429/f9da47e0/attachment.html>

From bobkatz at digido.com  Fri Apr 29 23:11:46 2022
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:11:46 -0400
Subject: [MLA] 95% normalized
In-Reply-To: <CALw1_Q3PirfCAFpGM_XvQt0m2D0PxS-_4JH0NFP=oxO2sSPY-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8D124EEA-21FB-46A7-AF59-87F5201313C2@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<ddc743f3-6f1f-f875-e172-9b4b7a6a9f74@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q3PirfCAFpGM_XvQt0m2D0PxS-_4JH0NFP=oxO2sSPY-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <38a34fb4-d892-4d88-5bf7-00e5003e8e66@digido.com>

Hi, Kevin.


Annoyance has something to do with it, and yes it's pretty hard to 
separate annoyance from perceived loudness of a highly compressed sound. 
But to my ears the less dynamic the recording and the more compression 
that is used --- the differences between loud and soft passages are so 
small that it sounds relentlessly loud. Louder than its LUFS would imply.


Bob


On 4/28/22 8:05 PM, Kevin Gross wrote:
> Bob, it sounds from your description that turning down MSNBC doesn't 
> exactly fix the problem. Loudness normalization should not be confused 
> with annoyance normalization.
>
> It used to be that I would have to adjust volume through a shuffled 
> playlist. Now that things are normalized, I still need to skip the 
> annoying tracks
>
> -kg
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 7:50 AM Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>
>     Ian: I for one appreciate your incredible enthusiasm on your blog.
>
>
>     Well.....??? using YouTube as justification for what is ultimately
>     an estimated uni-dimensional statistical value doesn't impress me.
>     What impresses me is your marketing ability. I am so tempted to
>     tell people that Ian Shepherd says that music platforms are
>     already 95% normalized!
>
>     9 out of 10 doctors say so, too!
>
>
>
>     At least we are moving forward and thanks for the article.
>
>
>     One thing we all are conveniently ignoring is that if you master
>     something stupid loud, so highly compressed and distorted, it will
>     sound louder than shit even if played 2-3 dB down in LUFS or SPL
>     compared to more dynamic material. So "stupid loud" is a way for
>     assholes to "beat" the normalized system.
>
>     I encounter this all the time in our bedroom with speech. MSNBC is
>     a highly compressed 24 hour news station. It's the squishy,
>     spongey kind of compression which I'm sure you know. So it's not
>     "stupid loud" but even so it illustrates what we're up against.?
>     Even though MSNBC is loudness normalized with dialnorm, it sounds
>     so unrelentless that I typically turn down the bedroom monitor 3-4
>     dB below that of more dynamic stations and material with the same
>     dialnorm value.
>
>
>     Bob
>
>
>
>     On 4/28/22 8:54 AM, Ian Shepherd wrote:
>>
>>     Hi All,
>>
>>     Now Apple are enabling Sound Check by default, I got curious
>>     about normalization statistics. I was really pleased by what I
>>     found, so I?m sharing it with you in case it?s helpful when
>>     talking to any of your clients?
>>
>>     https://productionadvice.co.uk/95-percent-normalized/
>>
>>     Of course there are plenty of places where normalization isn?t
>>     active, but another positive bit of news recently is that I
>>     measured the first 30 mins of Soundcloud?s Top 50 playlist, and
>>     the maximum short-term loudness of most songs was typically -7
>>     LUFS except for very brief moments, and maybe half the songs
>>     maxed out at -10 or -11 LUFS.
>>
>>     Of course we would still like it to be lower, but at least it
>>     wasn?t the -4 LUFS fiasco that I feared !
>>
>>     Cheers,
>>
>>     Ian
>>
>>
>>     ***
>>     Ian Shepherd
>>     Mastering Media Ltd <http://mastering-media.co.uk/>?- Audio
>>     Mastering, Blu-ray and DVD?Excellence
>>     http://twitter.com/ianshepherd
>>
>>     <http://twitter.com/ianshepherd>Mastering Media Ltd,
>>     Kemp House, 152 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX
>>     Registered in England and Wales
>>     Company No. 073500450
>>
>>     Tel. +44(0)1487 842498
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     MLA mailing list
>>     MLA at grimmaudio.nl
>>     http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>     -- 
>
>     If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz
>     407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering
>     Audio* Digital Domain Website <https://www.digido.com/> No trees
>     were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
>     of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     MLA mailing list
>     MLA at grimmaudio.nl
>     http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>
-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio* Digital Domain 
Website <https://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://grimmaudio.nl/pipermail/mla_grimmaudio.nl/attachments/20220429/976f8c3c/attachment-0001.html>

From thomas at lund.one  Sat Apr 30 13:26:46 2022
From: thomas at lund.one (Thomas Lund)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 13:26:46 +0200
Subject: [MLA] 95% normalized
In-Reply-To: <2e5636cf-c534-7b15-7f65-aa84b8c901dc@digido.com>
References: <8D124EEA-21FB-46A7-AF59-87F5201313C2@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<ddc743f3-6f1f-f875-e172-9b4b7a6a9f74@digido.com>
	<7796CD8D-7D3E-43D4-B01E-610C57DCCA4F@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<2e5636cf-c534-7b15-7f65-aa84b8c901dc@digido.com>
Message-ID: <93219511-FE28-4876-878D-98FA4B365B4D@lund.one>

Hi Bob,

I think Ian has a point by including YouTube. Though I?m paying for my kids? music streaming, they often still listen on YouTube.

cheers,
Thomas



On 29 Apr 2022, at 22.58, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:


On 4/29/22 7:03 AM, Ian Shepherd wrote:
> 
> Hi Bob,
>> Ian: I for one appreciate your incredible enthusiasm on your blog. 
>> 
> Thanks - I think...
>> Well.....    using YouTube as justification for what is ultimately an estimated uni-dimensional statistical value doesn't impress me.
>> 
> Can you say more about this ? The two different sources in the blog post I link to show both show the total reported number of streaming service users is (was in Q1 2021) about 500 million, and YouTube reported that 2 billion of their users consume music on the platform. So that?s a ballpark of 80% normalization as a minimum, in terms of where people are exposed to new music. (Which is the key - once someone has decided they like something they?ll do so regardless of the loudness)
> 
> So yes there is going to be plenty of inaccuracy in those figures, but the bottom line is that YouTube vastly outweighs the dedicated music platforms. And since YouTube is entirely normalized, that makes all the quibbling about default settings, users who disable it and the actual number of users on each particular service kind of irrelevant, doesn?t it ? I mean the ?real? number might be 90% or even as low as 80% perhaps but that?s still a massive proportion.
> 
> Or have I missed something and made an embarrassing error ?

Not embarrassing. But I don't get how you are counting in what is largely a video streaming service.... I can see musicians completely ignoring YouTube. They want to know what Spotify and Apple are doing. And yes, since they are normalized (with Apple slowly getting there).. you've made your point. But statistically I would NOT include YouTube in a percentage of MUSIC streaming services. 

>> What impresses me is your marketing ability. I am so tempted to tell people that Ian Shepherd says that music platforms are already 95% normalized! 
>> 
>> 9 out of 10 doctors say so, too!
>> 
> I think that?s an unfair comparison, ?9 out of 10 doctors? is a deliberately manipulated figure, the numbers I?ve used are a genuine attempt to compare how many listeners are on each service.
>> At least we are moving forward and thanks for the article. 
>> 
> Do you know the phrase ?damned with faint praise? ? I regularly get comments from major-name mastering engineers telling me everything I say about this topic is nonsense, so if all I?m doing is a great sales job on something that is actually flawed logic, maybe I won?t bother ?
> 
> Ian

I really mean what I said, you're doing a great job! And yes, you're practicing the best kind of marketing: putting a good face on the current situation. That is marketing....  on behalf of and for the benefit of us critical music producers. I just don't think it's fair to create a % number of MUSIC streaming. I think to be fair you must not include YouTube in your statistic. YouTube videos are often amateur productions with amateur soundtracks, and they must be accompanied by video. What's the % if you don't include Youtube?



Bob



-- 


If you want good sound on your album, come to
Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
Author: Mastering Audio
Digital Domain Website <https://www.digido.com/>

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
_______________________________________________
MLA mailing list
MLA at grimmaudio.nl
http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://grimmaudio.nl/pipermail/mla_grimmaudio.nl/attachments/20220430/21e24f7c/attachment.html>

From bobkatz at digido.com  Sat Apr 30 14:31:11 2022
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 08:31:11 -0400
Subject: [MLA] 95% normalized
In-Reply-To: <93219511-FE28-4876-878D-98FA4B365B4D@lund.one>
References: <8D124EEA-21FB-46A7-AF59-87F5201313C2@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<ddc743f3-6f1f-f875-e172-9b4b7a6a9f74@digido.com>
	<7796CD8D-7D3E-43D4-B01E-610C57DCCA4F@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<2e5636cf-c534-7b15-7f65-aa84b8c901dc@digido.com>
	<93219511-FE28-4876-878D-98FA4B365B4D@lund.one>
Message-ID: <cac47245-607a-5c4b-4089-6cbf3cd3f948@digido.com>

Ok.... you guys win! I just never think of YouTube as a music streaming 
service but I see your points. This discussion was only between us, I 
NEVER would speak up in any public way about Ian's post.

Well, now we have to move to get Spotify to adopt to AES TD-1008 and 
therefore move its target to -16 LUFS and do album normalization 
properly. Same for Apple. Not exactly sure how Apple is proceeding with 
their new (and much welcomed) -18 LUFS Target to do with Atmos.

And also figure out how any streaming services that are doing upward 
normalization are doing it. If I remember correctly, Apple will upward 
normalize UNLESS the true peak level would exceed -1 dBTP. I'm ok with 
that approach, but not with the peak limiter approach.

And who knows what Amazon music is doing?


Cheers back,



Bob


On 4/30/22 7:26 AM, Thomas Lund wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> I think Ian has a point by including YouTube. Though I?m paying for my 
> kids? music streaming, they often still listen on YouTube.
>
> cheers,
> Thomas
>
>
-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio* Digital Domain 
Website <https://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://grimmaudio.nl/pipermail/mla_grimmaudio.nl/attachments/20220430/bf4622c2/attachment.html>

