[MLA] Spotify’s plans

[Ian Shepherd]

Ah wait, maybe I misunderstood. 

I thought they would store 3 separate copies, each hard-normalised to Loud, Medium or Soft, and then streamed directly. 

But actually you’re saying they are just considering a reduction on material > -11 LUFS to improve encoding quality and provide the loudest copy (presumably also with higher quality limiting baked-in for quieter songs ? Or will they stop turning things up ?) but then other reference levels will be achieved in software. 

Is that right ?

Ian


PS. Understood about keeping this to ourselves 



> On 28 Oct 2019, at 18:18, Kevin Gross <kevin.gross at avanw.com> wrote:
> 
> I think it means what it says, normalize PCM audio to -11 LUFS. From which I assume, stuff that is louder than -11 LUFS gets digitally attenuated. Stuff quieter is untouched before normalization. Loudness metadata is stored as usual so that playback target can be adjusted.
> 
> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
> 
> 
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 10:20 AM Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com <mailto:bobkatz at digido.com>> wrote:
> On 10/28/19 9:49 AM, Grimm | Eelco wrote:
>> Hi Ian,
>> 
>>> I heard from somewhere rumours that in future Spotify will be normalising before encoding. 
>>> 
>>> (I can’t remember where this info came from, or whether it was on the record, which is why I’m mentioning it here first rather than in one of the AES groups)
>> Yes, we should keep this ‘under the hat’ for a while. I can confirm it is an idea that Spotify is considering. I have shared the idea with people from the target level group since I believe it should be part of our recommendation. I also mentioned that Spotify is considering it but that it was not final and should be treated as confidential info.
>> 
>>> Ultimately I think this is a good idea, since it will reduce the chances of decoder clipping, and also give better encoding results in general.
>> That is exactly why I told Spotify it is a good idea.
>> 
>>> However it’s also concerning if they choose (for example) -14 LUFS as a reference level. There will be a huge investment of time and processing in re-encoding their entire library, and I  imagine this would make them highly resistant to future changes - for example, to a reference level of -18 LUFS, as the AES are discussing.
>> No, it will always be a hybrid solution, which means: 1. attenuate PCM audio to -11 LUFS before encoding (the loudest target). 2. add metadata.
> 
> Please clarify what this means! There must be some clauses missing in the above. Or maybe you mean "attenuate PCM audio by 11 dB before encoding, and add metadata". 
> 
> 
>>> Did this info come from anyone in this group ? If so, do we need to start a conversation about it, or are Spotify already waiting to see what the AES recommend ?
>> They absolutely do. One more reason to keep moving forward.
>> 
>>> If we don’t know, do you think it’s OK for me to post the same question in the AES groups ?!
>> No, we should not post our knowledge about Spotify’s plans to the larger AES group. We can post the idea of attenuating to -11 LUFS before encoding, but I rather first discuss it in the target group.
> 
> Please discuss it here first. Explain to me what this means....  Did you really mean to say, "attenuate by 11 dB first"?  Which might make sense. But honestly, only 2 or 3 dB of attenuation would do the job for everything. 
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
>> Cheers,
>> Eelco
>> 
>> 
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