From eelco at grimmaudio.com  Tue Mar  6 23:32:02 2018
From: eelco at grimmaudio.com (Grimm | Eelco)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 23:32:02 +0100
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
Message-ID: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>

Dear MLA friends,

An IT friend of mine has noticed that when you engage loudness normalization in Spotify, the app switches to another server? This could mean that Spotify has double inventory of all tracks: an original file and a version with limiter.

The good news is that the limiter could be of higher quality than a real time limiter in a smart phone. The bad news is that it will be hard for them to apply improvements to the limiter quality or offer different normalization targets for stationary and mobile devices. Imagine how much CPU power was needed to process all those files...

I did not check this with my Spotify contact. I am not sure if they will be open about this and I don?t want to upset him with ?difficult questions?. But it is an interesting datapoint?

Cheers,
Eelco

From eelco at grimmaudio.com  Tue Mar  6 23:52:56 2018
From: eelco at grimmaudio.com (Grimm | Eelco)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 23:52:56 +0100
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1rC7oad5kUreAEHptYwR0pUBNR7wdBx15DRgc35Wq0OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D703EBA4-CBB9-4CE4-845E-082CC82C4E71@digido.com>
	<5D70F5AE-CAA0-4F9D-AA00-E40BF7782AEE@grimmaudio.com>
	<69A578AA-9F55-40AA-9928-582B8AE9D05F@digido.com>
	<351D5CE0-916B-4358-8855-BF453BBE4B09@digido.com>
	<FCAAC86F-F57D-445F-BCF8-C008F3F75328@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0zTGwwunASWVLn8s=Mg-EpYV-r-SC9ojGNFDC_WTFR6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxex+qa-b2-M49X1niSsE9jW+EYJXEDwrgbWPyXcXQJqFiRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56E22902-E483-494E-859B-97CBBB2F6753@grimmaudio.com>
	<D3E62453-050B-45F5-AA3E-1CDB7A867102@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<A458F312-C9F1-4EC5-97AB-B6AADA6140C3@gmail.com>
	<F647FBBB-FD22-42BA-BF8B-A0A32F31BA21@mac.com>
	<3922a1ce-7fd4-a290-10b6-6dd38d57cbe4@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0B5F6pKhiEBcCFS7995Hw6UKiOz+=os9CfhzaeBPYTbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<b1b5dceb-3ed1-7d3d-4139-0e424a8c95b4@digido.com>
	<89CCD91F-D8EC-41C0-B9BE-227AC5E9697B@gmail.com>
	<d6c69809-9c70-498f-7209-4f1260ff96bf@digido.com>
	<D34A92FC-15E6-4F69-AC90-AC7C559EB47C@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3p0y88NDjb9ZqZEyZYPjmDkWGr9nQaVXmhe57UZPuF-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>

Hi Kevin,

It?s a madhouse here, sorry for my radio silence. 

> Thanks for getting the links that I was able to recover put up on the Links page. We haven't heard from any other members about the ones I was not able to recover so we'll just have to go with what we have there.

The links that are there seem fine to me. We can always add more later on, let?s not wait with releasing the current version.

> I do have the correct text and links on the Home page now. If anyone sees any problems or potential improvements there, let me know. I had to move the content out of the "Left Column" content area so I could add the hyperlinks (perhaps I can type HTML code in the Left Column text box but that doesn't seem right). This puts the content in the middle of the page which is fine. All the text is centered which is not so pretty.

I?m actually fine with it. And I _love_ the logo!

> Let's go for left justified or something. Also the styling on the links is too subtle - they show up as underlined only when you hover the mouse over them. Let's have something a bit more obvious to indicate these are clickable.

I agree. What about the simple solution: only make the ?here? words clickable and underline it always. And the title of our paper should be in Italic. 

> The links on the Links page and paper on the Papers are in the "Left Column" content area. We'll need to find a way to make layout consistent with the Home page.

Yes. I?d say: just choose the same background color as the background of the ?Papers? text. That way it looks more like the home page. In the Contact us page you may also choose that color.

> I get an error when I try to open the Loudness Normalization paper on the Papers page.

It works for me. 

> In addition to getting this working, we want to have a direct PDF download link.

Perhaps. It works for me like it is already. 

> The Loudness Normalization paper has a tidal logo. That is not appropriate for this paper. If we want a graphic associated with this paper, maybe use this

Why not the MLA logo? Perhaps with a certain background color.

> We do want to include a link to Eelco's paper (https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM <https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM>) on the Papers page

Yes, with another background color maybe, in the right column. 

> We have decided not to have an About Us page; all that information is on the Home page. You have removed the About Us link from navigation at the top of the pages. We still have an About Us navigation at the bottom of the pages.

It?s fine with me: some people search for a ?home? button. Others for an ?about us? page. They will all arrive at the same page now...

Let?s get this site on air as soon as possible. It is already much better than what we have now...

Cheers,
Eelco

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From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Wed Mar  7 11:50:18 2018
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:50:18 +0000
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>


Interesting, although it would seem to be a very ?expensive? way of implementing this, especially now their reference level is lower so the limiter is used less aggressively.

Another interesting Spotify thing though - two people have emailed me to say that their latest iOS versions have three different normalisation choices:

Loud (-11)
Normal (-14)
Quiet (??)

I don?t see it here yet, though.

Ian







> On 6 Mar 2018, at 22:32, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear MLA friends,
> 
> An IT friend of mine has noticed that when you engage loudness normalization in Spotify, the app switches to another server? This could mean that Spotify has double inventory of all tracks: an original file and a version with limiter.
> 
> The good news is that the limiter could be of higher quality than a real time limiter in a smart phone. The bad news is that it will be hard for them to apply improvements to the limiter quality or offer different normalization targets for stationary and mobile devices. Imagine how much CPU power was needed to process all those files...
> 
> I did not check this with my Spotify contact. I am not sure if they will be open about this and I don?t want to upset him with ?difficult questions?. But it is an interesting datapoint?
> 
> Cheers,
> Eelco
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

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From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Wed Mar  7 12:04:50 2018
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 11:04:50 +0000
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1rC7oad5kUreAEHptYwR0pUBNR7wdBx15DRgc35Wq0OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D703EBA4-CBB9-4CE4-845E-082CC82C4E71@digido.com>
	<5D70F5AE-CAA0-4F9D-AA00-E40BF7782AEE@grimmaudio.com>
	<69A578AA-9F55-40AA-9928-582B8AE9D05F@digido.com>
	<351D5CE0-916B-4358-8855-BF453BBE4B09@digido.com>
	<FCAAC86F-F57D-445F-BCF8-C008F3F75328@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0zTGwwunASWVLn8s=Mg-EpYV-r-SC9ojGNFDC_WTFR6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxex+qa-b2-M49X1niSsE9jW+EYJXEDwrgbWPyXcXQJqFiRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56E22902-E483-494E-859B-97CBBB2F6753@grimmaudio.com>
	<D3E62453-050B-45F5-AA3E-1CDB7A867102@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<A458F312-C9F1-4EC5-97AB-B6AADA6140C3@gmail.com>
	<F647FBBB-FD22-42BA-BF8B-A0A32F31BA21@mac.com>
	<3922a1ce-7fd4-a290-10b6-6dd38d57cbe4@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0B5F6pKhiEBcCFS7995Hw6UKiOz+=os9CfhzaeBPYTbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<b1b5dceb-3ed1-7d3d-4139-0e424a8c95b4@digido.com>
	<89CCD91F-D8EC-41C0-B9BE-227AC5E9697B@gmail.com>
	<d6c69809-9c70-498f-7209-4f1260ff96bf@digido.com>
	<D34A92FC-15E6-4F69-AC90-AC7C559EB47C@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3p0y88NDjb9ZqZEyZYPjmDkWGr9nQaVXmhe57UZPuF-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>


Hi Kevin,

I agree with Eelco, this is fine for now and we should make it live. I?ve made the text on the Home page left-justified for now so you can all see how it looks - personally I prefer it.

I was going to change the ?link colour? to make hyperlinks stand out more, but I don?t seem to have access to the Appearance controls, presumably because our account is Editor only, not Admin ? Robin, please can you adjust this ? 

And also, do you have any security plugins installed yet ? As a minimum I think we need the free versions of WordFence and iThemes Security, or similar. 

Finally the title currently shows up as the default ?Music Loudness Alliance - Just another Wordpress site?, we need to correct that.

Overall looking great !

Ian


PS. One trivial question - is it overkill to have the logo in the footer as well as the header, when the pages have so little content ?




> On 6 Mar 2018, at 22:52, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Kevin,
> 
> It?s a madhouse here, sorry for my radio silence. 
> 
>> Thanks for getting the links that I was able to recover put up on the Links page. We haven't heard from any other members about the ones I was not able to recover so we'll just have to go with what we have there.
> 
> The links that are there seem fine to me. We can always add more later on, let?s not wait with releasing the current version.
> 
>> I do have the correct text and links on the Home page now. If anyone sees any problems or potential improvements there, let me know. I had to move the content out of the "Left Column" content area so I could add the hyperlinks (perhaps I can type HTML code in the Left Column text box but that doesn't seem right). This puts the content in the middle of the page which is fine. All the text is centered which is not so pretty.
> 
> I?m actually fine with it. And I _love_ the logo!
> 
>> Let's go for left justified or something. Also the styling on the links is too subtle - they show up as underlined only when you hover the mouse over them. Let's have something a bit more obvious to indicate these are clickable.
> 
> I agree. What about the simple solution: only make the ?here? words clickable and underline it always. And the title of our paper should be in Italic. 
> 
>> The links on the Links page and paper on the Papers are in the "Left Column" content area. We'll need to find a way to make layout consistent with the Home page.
> 
> Yes. I?d say: just choose the same background color as the background of the ?Papers? text. That way it looks more like the home page. In the Contact us page you may also choose that color.
> 
>> I get an error when I try to open the Loudness Normalization paper on the Papers page.
> 
> It works for me. 
> 
>> In addition to getting this working, we want to have a direct PDF download link.
> 
> Perhaps. It works for me like it is already. 
> 
>> The Loudness Normalization paper has a tidal logo. That is not appropriate for this paper. If we want a graphic associated with this paper, maybe use this
> 
> Why not the MLA logo? Perhaps with a certain background color.
> 
>> We do want to include a link to Eelco's paper (https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM <https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM>) on the Papers page
> 
> Yes, with another background color maybe, in the right column. 
> 
>> We have decided not to have an About Us page; all that information is on the Home page. You have removed the About Us link from navigation at the top of the pages. We still have an About Us navigation at the bottom of the pages.
> 
> It?s fine with me: some people search for a ?home? button. Others for an ?about us? page. They will all arrive at the same page now...
> 
> Let?s get this site on air as soon as possible. It is already much better than what we have now...
> 
> Cheers,
> Eelco
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

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From kevin.gross at avanw.com  Wed Mar  7 16:30:35 2018
From: kevin.gross at avanw.com (Kevin Gross)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 08:30:35 -0700
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1rC7oad5kUreAEHptYwR0pUBNR7wdBx15DRgc35Wq0OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D703EBA4-CBB9-4CE4-845E-082CC82C4E71@digido.com>
	<5D70F5AE-CAA0-4F9D-AA00-E40BF7782AEE@grimmaudio.com>
	<69A578AA-9F55-40AA-9928-582B8AE9D05F@digido.com>
	<351D5CE0-916B-4358-8855-BF453BBE4B09@digido.com>
	<FCAAC86F-F57D-445F-BCF8-C008F3F75328@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0zTGwwunASWVLn8s=Mg-EpYV-r-SC9ojGNFDC_WTFR6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxex+qa-b2-M49X1niSsE9jW+EYJXEDwrgbWPyXcXQJqFiRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56E22902-E483-494E-859B-97CBBB2F6753@grimmaudio.com>
	<D3E62453-050B-45F5-AA3E-1CDB7A867102@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<A458F312-C9F1-4EC5-97AB-B6AADA6140C3@gmail.com>
	<F647FBBB-FD22-42BA-BF8B-A0A32F31BA21@mac.com>
	<3922a1ce-7fd4-a290-10b6-6dd38d57cbe4@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0B5F6pKhiEBcCFS7995Hw6UKiOz+=os9CfhzaeBPYTbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<b1b5dceb-3ed1-7d3d-4139-0e424a8c95b4@digido.com>
	<89CCD91F-D8EC-41C0-B9BE-227AC5E9697B@gmail.com>
	<d6c69809-9c70-498f-7209-4f1260ff96bf@digido.com>
	<D34A92FC-15E6-4F69-AC90-AC7C559EB47C@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3p0y88NDjb9ZqZEyZYPjmDkWGr9nQaVXmhe57UZPuF-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
	<E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>

Some of my requests to Robin I thought needed to happen before we go live
and some can wait. I can sort them into nice vs. needed but I'm a little
concerned about waiting because there doesn't appear to be a lot of
bandwidth in the group to work on this so I'd have to assume we'd be
waiting a while.

In the department of things that need to be fixed, we can't have the Tidal
logo on the link to our paper and we want to add a link to Eelco's paper.
We definitely need to fix access to the papers. It is working for Eelco. It
is not working for me. Can we get others to visit the page (
http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/projects/loudnessnormalization/)
and report what they're seeing.

Ian, thanks for fixing text layout on the home/about page. I should have
tried harder there. There are layout things any of us can do and there are
others which only Robin can do.

Kevin Gross - AVA Networks

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 4:04 AM, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk>
wrote:

>
> Hi Kevin,
>
> I agree with Eelco, this is fine for now and we should make it live. I?ve
> made the text on the Home page left-justified for now so you can all see
> how it looks - personally I prefer it.
>
> I was going to change the ?link colour? to make hyperlinks stand out more,
> but I don?t seem to have access to the Appearance controls, presumably
> because our account is Editor only, not Admin ? Robin, please can you
> adjust this ?
>
> And also, do you have any security plugins installed yet ? As a minimum I
> think we need the free versions of WordFence and iThemes Security, or
> similar.
>
> Finally the title currently shows up as the default ?Music Loudness
> Alliance - Just another Wordpress site?, we need to correct that.
>
> Overall looking great !
>
> Ian
>
>
> PS. One trivial question - is it overkill to have the logo in the footer
> as well as the header, when the pages have so little content ?
>
>
>
>
> On 6 Mar 2018, at 22:52, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Kevin,
>
> It?s a madhouse here, sorry for my radio silence.
>
> Thanks for getting the links that I was able to recover put up on the
> Links page. We haven't heard from any other members about the ones I was
> not able to recover so we'll just have to go with what we have there.
>
>
> The links that are there seem fine to me. We can always add more later on,
> let?s not wait with releasing the current version.
>
> I do have the correct text and links on the Home page now. If anyone sees
> any problems or potential improvements there, let me know. I had to move
> the content out of the "Left Column" content area so I could add the
> hyperlinks (perhaps I can type HTML code in the Left Column text box but
> that doesn't seem right). This puts the content in the middle of the page
> which is fine. All the text is centered which is not so pretty.
>
>
> I?m actually fine with it. And I _love_ the logo!
>
> Let's go for left justified or something. Also the styling on the links is
> too subtle - they show up as underlined only when you hover the mouse over
> them. Let's have something a bit more obvious to indicate these are
> clickable.
>
>
> I agree. What about the simple solution: only make the ?here? words
> clickable and underline it always. And the title of our paper should be in
> Italic.
>
> The links on the Links page and paper on the Papers are in the "Left
> Column" content area. We'll need to find a way to make layout consistent
> with the Home page.
>
>
> Yes. I?d say: just choose the same background color as the background of
> the ?Papers? text. That way it looks more like the home page. In the
> Contact us page you may also choose that color.
>
> I get an error when I try to open the Loudness Normalization paper on the
> Papers page.
>
>
> It works for me.
>
> In addition to getting this working, we want to have a direct PDF download
> link.
>
>
> Perhaps. It works for me like it is already.
>
> The Loudness Normalization paper has a tidal logo. That is not
> appropriate for this paper. If we want a graphic associated with this
> paper, maybe use this
>
>
> Why not the MLA logo? Perhaps with a certain background color.
>
> We do want to include a link to Eelco's paper (https://octo.hku.nl/octo/
> repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM) on the Papers page
>
>
> Yes, with another background color maybe, in the right column.
>
> We have decided not to have an About Us page; all that information is on
> the Home page. You have removed the About Us link from navigation at the
> top of the pages. We still have an About Us navigation at the bottom of the
> pages.
>
>
> It?s fine with me: some people search for a ?home? button. Others for an
> ?about us? page. They will all arrive at the same page now...
>
> Let?s get this site on air as soon as possible. It is already much better
> than what we have now...
>
> Cheers,
> Eelco
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>
>
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From eelco at grimmaudio.com  Wed Mar  7 16:35:22 2018
From: eelco at grimmaudio.com (Grimm | Eelco)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 16:35:22 +0100
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FC891499-3BD8-4051-BB2D-589158556AE4@grimmaudio.com>

> Another interesting Spotify thing though - two people have emailed me to say that their latest iOS versions have three different normalisation choices:
> 
> Loud (-11)
> Normal (-14)
> Quiet (??)

Oh no! That would mean mastering engineers will target -11 again. I will contact my Spotify guy asap.

All the best,
Eelco



From kevin.gross at avanw.com  Wed Mar  7 16:49:30 2018
From: kevin.gross at avanw.com (Kevin Gross)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 08:49:30 -0700
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <FC891499-3BD8-4051-BB2D-589158556AE4@grimmaudio.com>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<FC891499-3BD8-4051-BB2D-589158556AE4@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <CALw1_Q2ZMz-4=2ntG2UEOt8Xs8xhk0FwavUo6jvUWnU5RR=Hgg@mail.gmail.com>

Although most of us have convinced ourselves that -14 or -16 LUFS is a good
target for all releases, user experience doesn't necessarily support this.
These target levels hit some limits in terms of player capability
(especially when the option to use alternative headphones/earbuds is taken
into account), HLP issues and, most practically, without something like
NORM-L, disabling -14 or -16 LUFS loudness normalization makes most tracks
louder. Listeners generally assume louder=better so we could end up losing
our own loudness war here. The -11 option is perhaps Spotifiy's solution to
this. If users are unsatisfied with -14, adding a well-processed -11 option
is probably much better than disabling normalization.

Kevin Gross - AVA Networks

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:35 AM, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com> wrote:

> > Another interesting Spotify thing though - two people have emailed me to
> say that their latest iOS versions have three different normalisation
> choices:
> >
> > Loud (-11)
> > Normal (-14)
> > Quiet (??)
>
> Oh no! That would mean mastering engineers will target -11 again. I will
> contact my Spotify guy asap.
>
> All the best,
> Eelco
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>
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From eelco at grimmaudio.com  Wed Mar  7 22:43:04 2018
From: eelco at grimmaudio.com (Grimm | Eelco)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 22:43:04 +0100
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <CALw1_Q2ZMz-4=2ntG2UEOt8Xs8xhk0FwavUo6jvUWnU5RR=Hgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<FC891499-3BD8-4051-BB2D-589158556AE4@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q2ZMz-4=2ntG2UEOt8Xs8xhk0FwavUo6jvUWnU5RR=Hgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BD5BC653-6BFB-40C0-819E-0869ADE9B1DB@grimmaudio.com>

Hi Kevin,

-11 LUFS is the loudness of the Cenelec reference noise. This means a -11 LUFS track can play at 100 dBA and a -14 LUFS track can play at 97 dBA (if the spectrum is similar to the reference noise of course, but it will likely be close). IMO 97 dBA is 'plenty loud? (quite deafening actually). I don?t see any reason to complain if a smartphone maxes out at 97 dBA.

_If_ it appears to be a major obstacle to too many users, we could advocate to offer a 3 dB additional analog gain in the smart phones when the loudness normalization is engaged. The -11 LUFS Cenelec ref noise will then still play at 100 dBA max, so the device is complient. But it will be quite a pita to push this through at Apple and Google (how to sense if the loudness normalization is on?), so I really hope that 97 dBA is acceptable. I will contact Spotify tomorrow.

> If users are unsatisfied with -14, adding a well-processed -11 option is probably much better than disabling normalization.

From a user standpoint that is true. But from a mastering engineer standpoint it just means -11 LUFS will be the new target. That would be a great disappointment since we were so extremely happy with -14 LUFS.

Cheers,
Eelco

> Although most of us have convinced ourselves that -14 or -16 LUFS is a good target for all releases, user experience doesn't necessarily support this. These target levels hit some limits in terms of player capability (especially when the option to use alternative headphones/earbuds is taken into account), HLP issues and, most practically, without something like NORM-L, disabling -14 or -16 LUFS loudness normalization makes most tracks louder. Listeners generally assume louder=better so we could end up losing our own loudness war here. The -11 option is perhaps Spotifiy's solution to this. If users are unsatisfied with -14, adding a well-processed -11 option is probably much better than disabling normalization.
> 
> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
> 
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:35 AM, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com <mailto:eelco at grimmaudio.com>> wrote:
> > Another interesting Spotify thing though - two people have emailed me to say that their latest iOS versions have three different normalisation choices:
> >
> > Loud (-11)
> > Normal (-14)
> > Quiet (??)
> 
> Oh no! That would mean mastering engineers will target -11 again. I will contact my Spotify guy asap.
> 
> All the best,
> Eelco
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

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From eelco at grimmaudio.com  Fri Mar  9 00:26:37 2018
From: eelco at grimmaudio.com (Grimm | Eelco)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 00:26:37 +0100
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <47AC1187-9B8B-464B-94B9-5190262AED39@grimmaudio.com>

Hi all,

> Another interesting Spotify thing though - two people have emailed me to say that their latest iOS versions have three different normalisation choices:
> 
> Loud (-11)
> Normal (-14)
> Quiet (??)
> 
> I don?t see it here yet, though.

I checked it with my Spotify contact. He wrote (please keep it confidential):

> Yes, this is indeed true! 
> Loud is -11, Normal -14 and Quiet is -23.
> 
> Default is Normal, and will remain so, don't worry!
> 
> The thinking here is that we can cater to the three different use cases that we have identified:
> - The most common situation is that -14 is loud enough for users to be able to play as loud as they need.
> - Quiet, -23, is there for all those who actually care about the dynamics and want a really good experience - and, most importantly, they are either in such a quiet environment that they can deal with -23 or they have enough power (eg in a home hifi system) to bring up the volume sufficiently.
> - Loud is for those users (yes, we do receive complaints about this) whose earphones on their mobile phones can't give them enough loudness in the environment they're in.

So the good news that -23 LUFS is in! And that -14 LUFS is still default. But of course, our fear is that mastering engineers will take the ?loud? -11 LUFS as their target ?just to be sure".

He also wrote that it should already be present in the current app. I updated my app to the brand new 8.4.43 but still don?t see the options. Maybe they?re not shown in the Spotify Free app? I check it with him. 

The whole discussion triggered an idea that I shared with him. Let?s hope he gets enthusiastic and that we can get Apple and Google on board with it (I know it will be quite difficult?). It goes like this:

I thought about the Cenelec requirements for smart phones in the EU: the special noise signal of -11 LUFS is not allowed to play louder than 100 dBA on the ear buds. Let?s say the device is limited to this level. If we normalize that test file to -14 LUFS, we attenuate it by 3 dB. It will now play to max 97 dBA. Apparently that leads to complaints at Spotify, and legally one would indeed be allowed to play 3 dB louder. There are two ways to solve this:
1. Set the target level to -11 LUFS. This is Spotify's current ?loud? option. The disadvantage is that the normalization target is raised and mastering engineers may use that as a reference. 
2. Let the Spotify app signal to the OS of the phone that normalization at -14 LUFS is engaged. The OS can then offer 3 dB extra gain to audio from the Spotify app and still comply with Cenelec. If the ref noise is played with normalization on, it will have a max of 100 dBA. If normalization is turned off, the OS will not offer the extra 3 dB headroom and again play at 100 dBA max. 

The beauty of the second method is that you may also choose a -23 LUFS target and still play equally loud as a non-normalized app...

Fingers crossed?

Cheers,
Eelco



From eelco at grimmaudio.com  Thu Mar 15 16:03:30 2018
From: eelco at grimmaudio.com (Grimm | Eelco)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 16:03:30 +0100
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <47AC1187-9B8B-464B-94B9-5190262AED39@grimmaudio.com>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<47AC1187-9B8B-464B-94B9-5190262AED39@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <EBB7153C-F3FC-4C5B-8094-7405945B928B@grimmaudio.com>

Dear all,

> He also wrote that it should already be present in the current app. I updated my app to the brand new 8.4.43 but still don?t see the options. Maybe they?re not shown in the Spotify Free app? I check it with him. 

And indeed it is not yet implemented in the free app, due to the fact that not all advertisements appeared to be normalized and the occasional jump from -23 LUFS is then too large. They are working on it.

> The whole discussion triggered an idea that I shared with him. Let?s hope he gets enthusiastic and that we can get Apple and Google on board with it (I know it will be quite difficult?). It goes like this:
> 
> (?)
> 
> Let the Spotify app signal to the OS of the phone that normalization at -14 LUFS is engaged. The OS can then offer 3 dB extra gain to audio from the Spotify app and still comply with Cenelec. If the ref noise is played with normalization on, it will have a max of 100 dBA. If normalization is turned off, the OS will not offer the extra 3 dB headroom and again play at 100 dBA max. 
> 
> The beauty of the second method is that you may also choose a -23 LUFS target and still play equally loud as a non-normalized app?

I checked it with Buddy Judge of Apple and he wrote:

> I briefly mentioned your proposal to one of our engineers who works on dosimetry and loudness. He had pitched a very similar idea. I think we all agree that normalization metadata should have an API for 3rd party Apps.  This may already be on someone?s road map ? I?m looking into it now. If not I will propose it?
> 
> More soon!

That sounds very encouraging! It would completely end all target level discussions. This way the Cenelec requirement is a blessing in disguise: if you don?t normalize you get 12 dB less headroom!! :-)

Fingers crossed?

Cheers,
Eelco



From bobkatz at digido.com  Thu Mar 15 18:10:26 2018
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 13:10:26 -0400
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <47AC1187-9B8B-464B-94B9-5190262AED39@grimmaudio.com>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<47AC1187-9B8B-464B-94B9-5190262AED39@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <5896106d-98bd-49be-7cd3-8f001d8fd66b@digido.com>

Spotify Giving more than one option is bound to be confusing for the 
user and ultimately a mess for mastering engineers trying to communicate 
ONE MESSAGE to our clients.

Secondly, regardless of the Cenelec issue and the low headphones issue 
on cheap devices we have to hold our ground. Advocating -11 LUFS at any 
point is a real problem sonically and a real compromise sonically. There 
has to be another solution and we must NEVER EVER advocate -11 LUFS. 
It's a stupid idea and cannot be rationalized away.

Even Thomas accepts -14 LUFS with album normalization, so let's not 
cross that line in the sand. And to repeat: -14 without album 
normalization is unacceptable also. So we need to know whether Spotify 
has album norm.


Bob



On 3/8/18 6:26 PM, Grimm | Eelco wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>> Another interesting Spotify thing though - two people have emailed me to say that their latest iOS versions have three different normalisation choices:
>>
>> Loud (-11)
>> Normal (-14)
>> Quiet (??)
>>
>> I don?t see it here yet, though.
> I checked it with my Spotify contact. He wrote (please keep it confidential):
>
>> Yes, this is indeed true!
>> Loud is -11, Normal -14 and Quiet is -23.
>>
>> Default is Normal, and will remain so, don't worry!
>>
>> The thinking here is that we can cater to the three different use cases that we have identified:
>> - The most common situation is that -14 is loud enough for users to be able to play as loud as they need.
>> - Quiet, -23, is there for all those who actually care about the dynamics and want a really good experience - and, most importantly, they are either in such a quiet environment that they can deal with -23 or they have enough power (eg in a home hifi system) to bring up the volume sufficiently.
>> - Loud is for those users (yes, we do receive complaints about this) whose earphones on their mobile phones can't give them enough loudness in the environment they're in.
> So the good news that -23 LUFS is in! And that -14 LUFS is still default. But of course, our fear is that mastering engineers will take the ?loud? -11 LUFS as their target ?just to be sure".
>
> He also wrote that it should already be present in the current app. I updated my app to the brand new 8.4.43 but still don?t see the options. Maybe they?re not shown in the Spotify Free app? I check it with him.
>
> The whole discussion triggered an idea that I shared with him. Let?s hope he gets enthusiastic and that we can get Apple and Google on board with it (I know it will be quite difficult?). It goes like this:
>
> I thought about the Cenelec requirements for smart phones in the EU: the special noise signal of -11 LUFS is not allowed to play louder than 100 dBA on the ear buds. Let?s say the device is limited to this level. If we normalize that test file to -14 LUFS, we attenuate it by 3 dB. It will now play to max 97 dBA. Apparently that leads to complaints at Spotify, and legally one would indeed be allowed to play 3 dB louder. There are two ways to solve this:
> 1. Set the target level to -11 LUFS. This is Spotify's current ?loud? option. The disadvantage is that the normalization target is raised and mastering engineers may use that as a reference.
> 2. Let the Spotify app signal to the OS of the phone that normalization at -14 LUFS is engaged. The OS can then offer 3 dB extra gain to audio from the Spotify app and still comply with Cenelec. If the ref noise is played with normalization on, it will have a max of 100 dBA. If normalization is turned off, the OS will not offer the extra 3 dB headroom and again play at 100 dBA max.
>
> The beauty of the second method is that you may also choose a -23 LUFS target and still play equally loud as a non-normalized app...
>
> Fingers crossed?
>
> Cheers,
> Eelco
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio *Digital Domain 
Website <http://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.

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From eelco at grimmaudio.com  Fri Mar 16 10:22:48 2018
From: eelco at grimmaudio.com (Grimm | Eelco)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 10:22:48 +0100
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <5896106d-98bd-49be-7cd3-8f001d8fd66b@digido.com>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<47AC1187-9B8B-464B-94B9-5190262AED39@grimmaudio.com>
	<5896106d-98bd-49be-7cd3-8f001d8fd66b@digido.com>
Message-ID: <FFCCCBBB-C717-4374-8A7F-F98FEA4890F4@grimmaudio.com>

Hi Bob,

> Spotify Giving more than one option is bound to be confusing for the user and ultimately a mess for mastering engineers trying to communicate ONE MESSAGE to our clients.
> 

Yes, I agree. The good news fortunately is that the default is ?loudness normalization at -14 LUFS ON?. So if we believe it is a problem that Apple did not turn normalization on by default since users never change the settings, we can use the same argument now to stay cool about this move by Spotify.

> Secondly, regardless of the Cenelec issue and the low headphones issue on cheap devices we have to hold our ground. Advocating -11 LUFS at any point is a real problem sonically and a real compromise sonically. There has to be another solution and we must NEVER EVER advocate -11 LUFS. It's a stupid idea and cannot be rationalized away. 

MLA will certainly never advocate -11 LUFS.

> Even Thomas accepts -14 LUFS with album normalization, so let's not cross that line in the sand. And to repeat: -14 without album normalization is unacceptable also. So we need to know whether Spotify has album norm.

Yes they have. They switch from track normalization to album normalization and back, based upon what?s next on the playlist. In my opinion not as good as album normalization always, but for instance Thomas preferred this normalization style.

Let?s hope we can nudge Apple to implement the ?extra headroom with normalization on? option soon. Then we just switch to a -23 LUFS target and have a beer :-)

Cheers,
Eelco

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From bobkatz at digido.com  Fri Mar 16 14:44:21 2018
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 09:44:21 -0400
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <FFCCCBBB-C717-4374-8A7F-F98FEA4890F4@grimmaudio.com>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<47AC1187-9B8B-464B-94B9-5190262AED39@grimmaudio.com>
	<5896106d-98bd-49be-7cd3-8f001d8fd66b@digido.com>
	<FFCCCBBB-C717-4374-8A7F-F98FEA4890F4@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <26e5d3bb-62d3-1df2-6391-2ae120052a39@digido.com>

On 3/16/18 5:22 AM, Grimm | Eelco wrote:
> Hi Bob,

> Yes they have. They switch from track normalization to album 
> normalization and back, based upon what?s next on the playlist. In my 
> opinion not as good as album normalization always, but for instance 
> Thomas preferred this normalization style.

Yes, I assume that you mean "contiguous tracks". That technique is "not 
as good", but I would use the description "seriously faulty". For 
example, with two songs from the same album placed randomly or 
non-contiguously, track normalization of a producer's intentionally soft 
song makes it sound very wrong and very loud.

Does Spotify keep track of which is the loudest song in the album even 
if it is not located within the current playlist? Does it use the 
"normalize to the loudest track in the album" algorithm?

> Let?s hope we can nudge Apple to implement the ?extra headroom with 
> normalization on? option soon. Then we just switch to a -23 LUFS 
> target and have a beer :-)

I'll have a rare wine if you please.


Regards,

Bob


-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio *Digital Domain 
Website <http://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.

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From kevin.gross at avanw.com  Fri Mar 16 17:07:00 2018
From: kevin.gross at avanw.com (Kevin Gross)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 10:07:00 -0600
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <FFCCCBBB-C717-4374-8A7F-F98FEA4890F4@grimmaudio.com>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<47AC1187-9B8B-464B-94B9-5190262AED39@grimmaudio.com>
	<5896106d-98bd-49be-7cd3-8f001d8fd66b@digido.com>
	<FFCCCBBB-C717-4374-8A7F-F98FEA4890F4@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <CALw1_Q09-P5KoYpuPSsL-8T-SquZNOQ=MpSSLqbXpxf0+43XHA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 3:22 AM, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com> wrote:

>
> Let?s hope we can nudge Apple to implement the ?extra headroom with
> normalization on? option soon. Then we just switch to a -23 LUFS target and
> have a beer :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Eelco
>
> We have talked in this group in the past about the potential need for
different processing for different listening scenarios. Spotify is touching
on this with their "Loud", "Normal", "Quiet" options. Based on the fact
that loudness-normalized material is played off a different server, it
appears they're doing some dynamics processing. We've said that we'd look
at this once we had solid recommendations for unprocessed loudness
normalization. Maybe it is time to get started.

Kevin
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From thomas at lund.one  Fri Mar 16 17:29:49 2018
From: thomas at lund.one (Thomas Lund)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 17:29:49 +0100
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <5896106d-98bd-49be-7cd3-8f001d8fd66b@digido.com>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<47AC1187-9B8B-464B-94B9-5190262AED39@grimmaudio.com>
	<5896106d-98bd-49be-7cd3-8f001d8fd66b@digido.com>
Message-ID: <E8758F8B-43E2-482F-B7A4-3CBACEF24B3B@lund.one>

Hi Bob,

No problemos. I don?t merely accept a -14 LUFS target with Album, but originally suggested it, based on a pilot study :-)

cheers,
Thomas

> On 15 Mar 2018, at 18.10, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
> 
> Spotify Giving more than one option is bound to be confusing for the user and ultimately a mess for mastering engineers trying to communicate ONE MESSAGE to our clients.
> Secondly, regardless of the Cenelec issue and the low headphones issue on cheap devices we have to hold our ground. Advocating -11 LUFS at any point is a real problem sonically and a real compromise sonically. There has to be another solution and we must NEVER EVER advocate -11 LUFS. It's a stupid idea and cannot be rationalized away. 
> 
> Even Thomas accepts -14 LUFS with album normalization, so let's not cross that line in the sand. And to repeat: -14 without album normalization is unacceptable also. So we need to know whether Spotify has album norm.
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/8/18 6:26 PM, Grimm | Eelco wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>>> Another interesting Spotify thing though - two people have emailed me to say that their latest iOS versions have three different normalisation choices:
>>> 
>>> Loud (-11)
>>> Normal (-14)
>>> Quiet (??)
>>> 
>>> I don?t see it here yet, though.
>> I checked it with my Spotify contact. He wrote (please keep it confidential):
>> 
>>> Yes, this is indeed true! 
>>> Loud is -11, Normal -14 and Quiet is -23.
>>> 
>>> Default is Normal, and will remain so, don't worry!
>>> 
>>> The thinking here is that we can cater to the three different use cases that we have identified:
>>> - The most common situation is that -14 is loud enough for users to be able to play as loud as they need.
>>> - Quiet, -23, is there for all those who actually care about the dynamics and want a really good experience - and, most importantly, they are either in such a quiet environment that they can deal with -23 or they have enough power (eg in a home hifi system) to bring up the volume sufficiently.
>>> - Loud is for those users (yes, we do receive complaints about this) whose earphones on their mobile phones can't give them enough loudness in the environment they're in.
>> So the good news that -23 LUFS is in! And that -14 LUFS is still default. But of course, our fear is that mastering engineers will take the ?loud? -11 LUFS as their target ?just to be sure".
>> 
>> He also wrote that it should already be present in the current app. I updated my app to the brand new 8.4.43 but still don?t see the options. Maybe they?re not shown in the Spotify Free app? I check it with him. 
>> 
>> The whole discussion triggered an idea that I shared with him. Let?s hope he gets enthusiastic and that we can get Apple and Google on board with it (I know it will be quite difficult?). It goes like this:
>> 
>> I thought about the Cenelec requirements for smart phones in the EU: the special noise signal of -11 LUFS is not allowed to play louder than 100 dBA on the ear buds. Let?s say the device is limited to this level. If we normalize that test file to -14 LUFS, we attenuate it by 3 dB. It will now play to max 97 dBA. Apparently that leads to complaints at Spotify, and legally one would indeed be allowed to play 3 dB louder. There are two ways to solve this:
>> 1. Set the target level to -11 LUFS. This is Spotify's current ?loud? option. The disadvantage is that the normalization target is raised and mastering engineers may use that as a reference. 
>> 2. Let the Spotify app signal to the OS of the phone that normalization at -14 LUFS is engaged. The OS can then offer 3 dB extra gain to audio from the Spotify app and still comply with Cenelec. If the ref noise is played with normalization on, it will have a max of 100 dBA. If normalization is turned off, the OS will not offer the extra 3 dB headroom and again play at 100 dBA max. 
>> 
>> The beauty of the second method is that you may also choose a -23 LUFS target and still play equally loud as a non-normalized app...
>> 
>> Fingers crossed?
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Eelco
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
> 
> -- 
> 
> If you want good sound on your album, come to
> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
> Author: Mastering Audio              
> Digital Domain Website <http://www.digido.com/>
> 
> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

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From robinreumers at gmail.com  Sun Mar 18 17:24:50 2018
From: robinreumers at gmail.com (Robin Reumers)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 17:24:50 +0100
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1rC7oad5kUreAEHptYwR0pUBNR7wdBx15DRgc35Wq0OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D703EBA4-CBB9-4CE4-845E-082CC82C4E71@digido.com>
	<5D70F5AE-CAA0-4F9D-AA00-E40BF7782AEE@grimmaudio.com>
	<69A578AA-9F55-40AA-9928-582B8AE9D05F@digido.com>
	<351D5CE0-916B-4358-8855-BF453BBE4B09@digido.com>
	<FCAAC86F-F57D-445F-BCF8-C008F3F75328@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0zTGwwunASWVLn8s=Mg-EpYV-r-SC9ojGNFDC_WTFR6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxex+qa-b2-M49X1niSsE9jW+EYJXEDwrgbWPyXcXQJqFiRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56E22902-E483-494E-859B-97CBBB2F6753@grimmaudio.com>
	<D3E62453-050B-45F5-AA3E-1CDB7A867102@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<A458F312-C9F1-4EC5-97AB-B6AADA6140C3@gmail.com>
	<F647FBBB-FD22-42BA-BF8B-A0A32F31BA21@mac.com>
	<3922a1ce-7fd4-a290-10b6-6dd38d57cbe4@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0B5F6pKhiEBcCFS7995Hw6UKiOz+=os9CfhzaeBPYTbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<b1b5dceb-3ed1-7d3d-4139-0e424a8c95b4@digido.com>
	<89CCD91F-D8EC-41C0-B9BE-227AC5E9697B@gmail.com>
	<d6c69809-9c70-498f-7209-4f1260ff96bf@digido.com>
	<D34A92FC-15E6-4F69-AC90-AC7C559EB47C@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3p0y88NDjb9ZqZEyZYPjmDkWGr9nQaVXmhe57UZPuF-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
	<E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>

Hi Kevin,

Apologies for the delay, this time on my side (just finished a big project). I changed the logo for the paper, and I don?t see any issues with accessing the papers. Tried it on many browsers. What are you seeing when you browse this page?: http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/papers/ <http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/papers/>

I also made the MLA account a full administrator, so you should see everything. The security is up and running. I did some stress testing and it seems to be fine. On top of this, we have continuous backups going.

Please let me know what else you would like me to do before going live?

Best wishes,

Robin


> On 07 Mar 2018, at 16:30, Kevin Gross <kevin.gross at avanw.com> wrote:
> 
> Some of my requests to Robin I thought needed to happen before we go live and some can wait. I can sort them into nice vs. needed but I'm a little concerned about waiting because there doesn't appear to be a lot of bandwidth in the group to work on this so I'd have to assume we'd be waiting a while.
> 
> In the department of things that need to be fixed, we can't have the Tidal logo on the link to our paper and we want to add a link to Eelco's paper. We definitely need to fix access to the papers. It is working for Eelco. It is not working for me. Can we get others to visit the page (http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/projects/loudnessnormalization/ <http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/projects/loudnessnormalization/>) and report what they're seeing.
> 
> Ian, thanks for fixing text layout on the home/about page. I should have tried harder there. There are layout things any of us can do and there are others which only Robin can do.
> 
> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
> 
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 4:04 AM, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk <mailto:ian at mastering-media.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
> Hi Kevin,
> 
> I agree with Eelco, this is fine for now and we should make it live. I?ve made the text on the Home page left-justified for now so you can all see how it looks - personally I prefer it.
> 
> I was going to change the ?link colour? to make hyperlinks stand out more, but I don?t seem to have access to the Appearance controls, presumably because our account is Editor only, not Admin ? Robin, please can you adjust this ? 
> 
> And also, do you have any security plugins installed yet ? As a minimum I think we need the free versions of WordFence and iThemes Security, or similar. 
> 
> Finally the title currently shows up as the default ?Music Loudness Alliance - Just another Wordpress site?, we need to correct that.
> 
> Overall looking great !
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> PS. One trivial question - is it overkill to have the logo in the footer as well as the header, when the pages have so little content ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 6 Mar 2018, at 22:52, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com <mailto:eelco at grimmaudio.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Kevin,
>> 
>> It?s a madhouse here, sorry for my radio silence. 
>> 
>>> Thanks for getting the links that I was able to recover put up on the Links page. We haven't heard from any other members about the ones I was not able to recover so we'll just have to go with what we have there.
>> 
>> The links that are there seem fine to me. We can always add more later on, let?s not wait with releasing the current version.
>> 
>>> I do have the correct text and links on the Home page now. If anyone sees any problems or potential improvements there, let me know. I had to move the content out of the "Left Column" content area so I could add the hyperlinks (perhaps I can type HTML code in the Left Column text box but that doesn't seem right). This puts the content in the middle of the page which is fine. All the text is centered which is not so pretty.
>> 
>> I?m actually fine with it. And I _love_ the logo!
>> 
>>> Let's go for left justified or something. Also the styling on the links is too subtle - they show up as underlined only when you hover the mouse over them. Let's have something a bit more obvious to indicate these are clickable.
>> 
>> I agree. What about the simple solution: only make the ?here? words clickable and underline it always. And the title of our paper should be in Italic. 
>> 
>>> The links on the Links page and paper on the Papers are in the "Left Column" content area. We'll need to find a way to make layout consistent with the Home page.
>> 
>> Yes. I?d say: just choose the same background color as the background of the ?Papers? text. That way it looks more like the home page. In the Contact us page you may also choose that color.
>> 
>>> I get an error when I try to open the Loudness Normalization paper on the Papers page.
>> 
>> It works for me. 
>> 
>>> In addition to getting this working, we want to have a direct PDF download link.
>> 
>> Perhaps. It works for me like it is already. 
>> 
>>> The Loudness Normalization paper has a tidal logo. That is not appropriate for this paper. If we want a graphic associated with this paper, maybe use this
>> 
>> Why not the MLA logo? Perhaps with a certain background color.
>> 
>>> We do want to include a link to Eelco's paper (https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM <https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM>) on the Papers page
>> 
>> Yes, with another background color maybe, in the right column. 
>> 
>>> We have decided not to have an About Us page; all that information is on the Home page. You have removed the About Us link from navigation at the top of the pages. We still have an About Us navigation at the bottom of the pages.
>> 
>> It?s fine with me: some people search for a ?home? button. Others for an ?about us? page. They will all arrive at the same page now...
>> 
>> Let?s get this site on air as soon as possible. It is already much better than what we have now...
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Eelco
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

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From bobkatz at digido.com  Sun Mar 18 17:45:59 2018
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 12:45:59 -0400
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6c69809-9c70-498f-7209-4f1260ff96bf@digido.com>
	<D34A92FC-15E6-4F69-AC90-AC7C559EB47C@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3p0y88NDjb9ZqZEyZYPjmDkWGr9nQaVXmhe57UZPuF-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
	<E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cc565fbd-3102-546b-1c78-12dd55ecb3c9@digido.com>

Let me know when you want to go live and I'll change the DNS


Bob



On 3/18/18 12:24 PM, Robin Reumers wrote:
> Hi Kevin,
>
> Apologies for the delay, this time on my side (just finished a big 
> project). I changed the logo for the paper, and I don?t see any issues 
> with accessing the papers. Tried it on many browsers. What are you 
> seeing when you browse this page?: 
> http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/papers/
>
> I also made the MLA account a full administrator, so you should see 
> everything. The security is up and running. I did some stress testing 
> and it seems to be fine. On top of this, we have continuous backups going.
>
> Please let me know what else you would like me to do before going live?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Robin
>
>
>> On 07 Mar 2018, at 16:30, Kevin Gross <kevin.gross at avanw.com 
>> <mailto:kevin.gross at avanw.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Some of my requests to Robin I thought needed to happen before we go 
>> live and some can wait. I can sort them into nice vs. needed but I'm 
>> a little concerned about waiting because there doesn't appear to be a 
>> lot of bandwidth in the group to work on this so I'd have to assume 
>> we'd be waiting a while.
>>
>> In the department of things that need to be fixed, we can't have the 
>> Tidal logo on the link to our paper and we want to add a link to 
>> Eelco's paper. We definitely need to fix access to the papers. It is 
>> working for Eelco. It is not working for me. Can we get others to 
>> visit the page 
>> (http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/projects/loudnessnormalization/) 
>> and report what they're seeing.
>>
>> Ian, thanks for fixing text layout on the home/about page. I should 
>> have tried harder there. There are layout things any of us can do and 
>> there are others which only Robin can do.
>>
>> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 4:04 AM, Ian Shepherd 
>> <ian at mastering-media.co.uk <mailto:ian at mastering-media.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     Hi Kevin,
>>
>>     I agree with Eelco, this is fine for now and we should make it
>>     live. I?ve made the text on the Home page left-justified for now
>>     so you can all see how it looks - personally I prefer it.
>>
>>     I was going to change the ?link colour? to make hyperlinks stand
>>     out more, but I don?t seem to have access to the Appearance
>>     controls, presumably because our account is Editor only, not
>>     Admin ? Robin, please can you adjust this ?
>>
>>     And also, do you have any security plugins installed yet ? As a
>>     minimum I think we need the free versions of WordFence and
>>     iThemes Security, or similar.
>>
>>     Finally the title currently shows up as the default ?Music
>>     Loudness Alliance - Just another Wordpress site?, we need to
>>     correct that.
>>
>>     Overall looking great !
>>
>>     Ian
>>
>>
>>     PS. One trivial question - is it overkill to have the logo in the
>>     footer as well as the header, when the pages have so little content ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>     On 6 Mar 2018, at 22:52, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com
>>>     <mailto:eelco at grimmaudio.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Hi Kevin,
>>>
>>>     It?s a madhouse here, sorry for my radio silence.
>>>
>>>>     Thanks for getting the links that I was able to recover put up
>>>>     on the Links page. We haven't heard from any other members
>>>>     about the ones I was not able to recover so we'll just have to
>>>>     go with what we have there.
>>>
>>>     The links that are there seem fine to me. We can always add more
>>>     later on, let?s not wait with releasing the current version.
>>>
>>>>     I do have the correct text and links on the Home page now. If
>>>>     anyone sees any problems or potential improvements there, let
>>>>     me know. I had to move the content out of the "Left Column"
>>>>     content area so I could add the hyperlinks (perhaps I can type
>>>>     HTML code in the Left Column?text box but that doesn't seem
>>>>     right). This puts the content in the middle of the page which
>>>>     is fine. All the text is centered which is not so pretty.
>>>
>>>     I?m actually fine with it. And I _love_ the logo!
>>>
>>>>     Let's go for left justified or something. Also the styling on
>>>>     the links is too subtle - they show up as underlined only when
>>>>     you hover the mouse over them. Let's have something a bit more
>>>>     obvious to indicate these are clickable.
>>>
>>>     I agree. What about the simple solution: only make the ?here?
>>>     words clickable and underline it always. And the title of our
>>>     paper should be in Italic.
>>>
>>>>     The links on the Links page and paper on the Papers are in the
>>>>     "Left Column" content area. We'll need to find a way to make
>>>>     layout consistent with the Home page.
>>>
>>>     Yes. I?d say: just choose the same background color as the
>>>     background of the ?Papers? text. That way it looks more like the
>>>     home page. In the Contact us page you may also choose that color.
>>>
>>>>     I get an error when I try to open the Loudness Normalization
>>>>     paper on the Papers page.
>>>
>>>     It works for me.
>>>
>>>>     In addition to getting this working, we want to have a direct
>>>>     PDF download link.
>>>
>>>     Perhaps. It works for me like it is already.
>>>
>>>>     The Loudness Normalization paper?has a tidal logo. That is not
>>>>     appropriate for this paper. If we want a graphic associated
>>>>     with this paper, maybe use this
>>>
>>>     Why not the MLA logo? Perhaps with a certain background color.
>>>
>>>>     We do want to include a link to Eelco's paper
>>>>     (https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM
>>>>     <https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM>)
>>>>     on the Papers page
>>>
>>>     Yes, with another background color maybe, in the right column.
>>>
>>>>     We have decided not to have an About Us page; all that
>>>>     information is on the Home page. You have removed the About Us
>>>>     link from navigation at the top of the pages. We still have an
>>>>     About Us navigation at the bottom of the pages.
>>>
>>>     It?s fine with me: some people search for a ?home? button.
>>>     Others for an ?about us? page. They will all arrive at the same
>>>     page now...
>>>
>>>     Let?s get this site on air as soon as possible. It is already
>>>     much better than what we have now...
>>>
>>>     Cheers,
>>>     Eelco
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     MLA mailing list
>>>     MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>     http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>>>     <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     MLA mailing list
>>     MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>     http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>>     <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio *Digital Domain 
Website <http://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.

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From bobkatz at digido.com  Sun Mar 18 17:58:18 2018
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 12:58:18 -0400
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <CALw1_Q09-P5KoYpuPSsL-8T-SquZNOQ=MpSSLqbXpxf0+43XHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<47AC1187-9B8B-464B-94B9-5190262AED39@grimmaudio.com>
	<5896106d-98bd-49be-7cd3-8f001d8fd66b@digido.com>
	<FFCCCBBB-C717-4374-8A7F-F98FEA4890F4@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q09-P5KoYpuPSsL-8T-SquZNOQ=MpSSLqbXpxf0+43XHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <03ef5f52-3d0f-afcf-e356-307d3dced0e8@digido.com>

Dynamics processing in streaming on mastered material is just another 
backwards step to the ugly Orban, ugly-sounding and ugly radio land. No 
ONE, I mean no ONE knows what's optimal for every venue. NO ENGINEER has 
preknowlege of what the user's venue or user's conditions are going to 
be.? And giving the user the choice rarely results in anything good.

Furthermore, presets called "Loud" and "Normal" are just ways of making 
the sound "squashed" and "more squashed". Applying downward compression, 
limiting and Orban style processing presets on top of music which can 
vary from the most unprocessed to the most smashed is just going to 
further and seriously distort the smashed recordings, and ruin the depth 
and clarity of any high quality material. Thus returning to the 
distortions that we successfully got rid of by inventing R-128 in the 
first place! This is WHY the EBU and ATSC do NOT advocate ANY loudness 
processing, simply loudness normalization. Do you think that Spotify 
knows better than experienced broadcast engineers?

There are two proper solutions to the noisy venue problem. The eventual 
and proper one is to move to is a noise-based processor that 
incorporates the microphone in the user device and raises the gain of 
low level material without any level-based time-constants.

As we wait for a microphone-noise-based processor to be perfected, I 
would propose interim presets labeled "noisy environment" "medium noisey 
environment' and "quiet environment". These would use parallel 
compression which is designed to be invisible at high levels and only 
effective meaningful at low levels. NOT the kind of processing that I 
wager Spotify is using. I wager they're using ugly, undiscriminated, 
downward compression and limiting.

Otherwise vendors and streamers should keep their noses out of the 
processing business. It failed and sucked with radio and they're just 
bound to repeat the mistakes of FM radio :-(



Let's call a spade a spade and do things right.


Bob



On 3/16/18 12:07 PM, Kevin Gross wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 3:22 AM, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com 
> <mailto:eelco at grimmaudio.com>> wrote:
>
>
>     Let?s hope we can nudge Apple to implement the ?extra headroom
>     with normalization on? option soon. Then we just switch to a -23
>     LUFS target and have a beer :-)
>
>     Cheers,
>     Eelco
>
> We have talked in this group in the past about the potential need for 
> different processing for different listening scenarios. Spotify is 
> touching on this with their "Loud", "Normal", "Quiet" options. Based 
> on the fact that loudness-normalized material is played off a 
> different server, it appears they're doing some dynamics processing. 
> We've said that we'd look at this once we had solid recommendations 
> for unprocessed loudness normalization. Maybe it is time to get started.
>
> Kevin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio *Digital Domain 
Website <http://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.

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From eelco at grimmaudio.com  Sun Mar 18 22:11:44 2018
From: eelco at grimmaudio.com (Grimm | Eelco)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 22:11:44 +0100
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <03ef5f52-3d0f-afcf-e356-307d3dced0e8@digido.com>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<47AC1187-9B8B-464B-94B9-5190262AED39@grimmaudio.com>
	<5896106d-98bd-49be-7cd3-8f001d8fd66b@digido.com>
	<FFCCCBBB-C717-4374-8A7F-F98FEA4890F4@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q09-P5KoYpuPSsL-8T-SquZNOQ=MpSSLqbXpxf0+43XHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<03ef5f52-3d0f-afcf-e356-307d3dced0e8@digido.com>
Message-ID: <5366BFE7-9961-4691-9432-CF6A80C6EF1B@grimmaudio.com>

Hi Bob,

Like Kevin suggested between the lines: it may be about time to define the ?noisy environment? processing. What I read in your message is that the micro dynamics should not be changed. That means we still need a target of -14 LUFS or lower (with 3 dB extra headroom): the processing is on the softer part of the sound.

I think it is time for MLA to again show the way to the future and write a white paper about this. Perhaps we better wait with publication until -23 LUFS targets on smart phones are possible. But then we should have a solution ready to help people control the huge dynamic range they got. Would you be willing to take the lead in writing this white paper?

Cheers,
Eelco

> Dynamics processing in streaming on mastered material is just another backwards step to the ugly Orban, ugly-sounding and ugly radio land. No ONE, I mean no ONE knows what's optimal for every venue. NO ENGINEER has preknowlege of what the user's venue or user's conditions are going to be.  And giving the user the choice rarely results in anything good. 
> Furthermore, presets called "Loud" and "Normal" are just ways of making the sound "squashed" and "more squashed". Applying downward compression, limiting and Orban style processing presets on top of music which can vary from the most unprocessed to the most smashed is just going to further and seriously distort the smashed recordings, and ruin the depth and clarity of any high quality material. Thus returning to the distortions that we successfully got rid of by inventing R-128 in the first place! This is WHY the EBU and ATSC do NOT advocate ANY loudness processing, simply loudness normalization. Do you think that Spotify knows better than experienced broadcast engineers?
> There are two proper solutions to the noisy venue problem. The eventual and proper one is to move to is a noise-based processor that incorporates the microphone in the user device and raises the gain of low level material without any level-based time-constants. 
> As we wait for a microphone-noise-based processor to be perfected, I would propose interim presets labeled "noisy environment" "medium noisey environment' and "quiet environment". These would use parallel compression which is designed to be invisible at high levels and only effective meaningful at low levels. NOT the kind of processing that I wager Spotify is using. I wager they're using ugly, undiscriminated, downward compression and limiting. 
> Otherwise vendors and streamers should keep their noses out of the processing business. It failed and sucked with radio and they're just bound to repeat the mistakes of FM radio :-(
> 
> 
> 
> Let's call a spade a spade and do things right. 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/16/18 12:07 PM, Kevin Gross wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 3:22 AM, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com <mailto:eelco at grimmaudio.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Let?s hope we can nudge Apple to implement the ?extra headroom with normalization on? option soon. Then we just switch to a -23 LUFS target and have a beer :-)
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Eelco
>> 
>> We have talked in this group in the past about the potential need for different processing for different listening scenarios. Spotify is touching on this with their "Loud", "Normal", "Quiet" options. Based on the fact that loudness-normalized material is played off a different server, it appears they're doing some dynamics processing. We've said that we'd look at this once we had solid recommendations for unprocessed loudness normalization. Maybe it is time to get started.
>> 
>> Kevin
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
> 
> -- 
> 
> If you want good sound on your album, come to
> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
> Author: Mastering Audio              
> Digital Domain Website <http://www.digido.com/>
> 
> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

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From eelco at grimmaudio.com  Sun Mar 18 22:14:10 2018
From: eelco at grimmaudio.com (Grimm | Eelco)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 22:14:10 +0100
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1rC7oad5kUreAEHptYwR0pUBNR7wdBx15DRgc35Wq0OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D703EBA4-CBB9-4CE4-845E-082CC82C4E71@digido.com>
	<5D70F5AE-CAA0-4F9D-AA00-E40BF7782AEE@grimmaudio.com>
	<69A578AA-9F55-40AA-9928-582B8AE9D05F@digido.com>
	<351D5CE0-916B-4358-8855-BF453BBE4B09@digido.com>
	<FCAAC86F-F57D-445F-BCF8-C008F3F75328@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0zTGwwunASWVLn8s=Mg-EpYV-r-SC9ojGNFDC_WTFR6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxex+qa-b2-M49X1niSsE9jW+EYJXEDwrgbWPyXcXQJqFiRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56E22902-E483-494E-859B-97CBBB2F6753@grimmaudio.com>
	<D3E62453-050B-45F5-AA3E-1CDB7A867102@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<A458F312-C9F1-4EC5-97AB-B6AADA6140C3@gmail.com>
	<F647FBBB-FD22-42BA-BF8B-A0A32F31BA21@mac.com>
	<3922a1ce-7fd4-a290-10b6-6dd38d57cbe4@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0B5F6pKhiEBcCFS7995Hw6UKiOz+=os9CfhzaeBPYTbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<b1b5dceb-3ed1-7d3d-4139-0e424a8c95b4@digido.com>
	<89CCD91F-D8EC-41C0-B9BE-227AC5E9697B@gmail.com>
	<d6c69809-9c70-498f-7209-4f1260ff96bf@digido.com>
	<D34A92FC-15E6-4F69-AC90-AC7C559EB47C@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3p0y88NDjb9ZqZEyZYPjmDkWGr9nQaVXmhe57UZPuF-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
	<E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <08E2FC7F-1F13-43BB-AF5D-5A3F05E91163@grimmaudio.com>

Hi Robin,

The paper link looks more like a logo now, so people may miss it. Do you have an idea how to make it look more like a link to a paper?

Thanks.

Cheers,
Eelco

> Hi Kevin,
> 
> Apologies for the delay, this time on my side (just finished a big project). I changed the logo for the paper, and I don?t see any issues with accessing the papers. Tried it on many browsers. What are you seeing when you browse this page?: http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/papers/ <http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/papers/>
> 
> I also made the MLA account a full administrator, so you should see everything. The security is up and running. I did some stress testing and it seems to be fine. On top of this, we have continuous backups going.
> 
> Please let me know what else you would like me to do before going live?
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Robin
> 
> 
>> On 07 Mar 2018, at 16:30, Kevin Gross <kevin.gross at avanw.com <mailto:kevin.gross at avanw.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Some of my requests to Robin I thought needed to happen before we go live and some can wait. I can sort them into nice vs. needed but I'm a little concerned about waiting because there doesn't appear to be a lot of bandwidth in the group to work on this so I'd have to assume we'd be waiting a while.
>> 
>> In the department of things that need to be fixed, we can't have the Tidal logo on the link to our paper and we want to add a link to Eelco's paper. We definitely need to fix access to the papers. It is working for Eelco. It is not working for me. Can we get others to visit the page (http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/projects/loudnessnormalization/ <http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/projects/loudnessnormalization/>) and report what they're seeing.
>> 
>> Ian, thanks for fixing text layout on the home/about page. I should have tried harder there. There are layout things any of us can do and there are others which only Robin can do.
>> 
>> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>> 
>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 4:04 AM, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk <mailto:ian at mastering-media.co.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Kevin,
>> 
>> I agree with Eelco, this is fine for now and we should make it live. I?ve made the text on the Home page left-justified for now so you can all see how it looks - personally I prefer it.
>> 
>> I was going to change the ?link colour? to make hyperlinks stand out more, but I don?t seem to have access to the Appearance controls, presumably because our account is Editor only, not Admin ? Robin, please can you adjust this ? 
>> 
>> And also, do you have any security plugins installed yet ? As a minimum I think we need the free versions of WordFence and iThemes Security, or similar. 
>> 
>> Finally the title currently shows up as the default ?Music Loudness Alliance - Just another Wordpress site?, we need to correct that.
>> 
>> Overall looking great !
>> 
>> Ian
>> 
>> 
>> PS. One trivial question - is it overkill to have the logo in the footer as well as the header, when the pages have so little content ?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 6 Mar 2018, at 22:52, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com <mailto:eelco at grimmaudio.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Kevin,
>>> 
>>> It?s a madhouse here, sorry for my radio silence. 
>>> 
>>>> Thanks for getting the links that I was able to recover put up on the Links page. We haven't heard from any other members about the ones I was not able to recover so we'll just have to go with what we have there.
>>> 
>>> The links that are there seem fine to me. We can always add more later on, let?s not wait with releasing the current version.
>>> 
>>>> I do have the correct text and links on the Home page now. If anyone sees any problems or potential improvements there, let me know. I had to move the content out of the "Left Column" content area so I could add the hyperlinks (perhaps I can type HTML code in the Left Column text box but that doesn't seem right). This puts the content in the middle of the page which is fine. All the text is centered which is not so pretty.
>>> 
>>> I?m actually fine with it. And I _love_ the logo!
>>> 
>>>> Let's go for left justified or something. Also the styling on the links is too subtle - they show up as underlined only when you hover the mouse over them. Let's have something a bit more obvious to indicate these are clickable.
>>> 
>>> I agree. What about the simple solution: only make the ?here? words clickable and underline it always. And the title of our paper should be in Italic. 
>>> 
>>>> The links on the Links page and paper on the Papers are in the "Left Column" content area. We'll need to find a way to make layout consistent with the Home page.
>>> 
>>> Yes. I?d say: just choose the same background color as the background of the ?Papers? text. That way it looks more like the home page. In the Contact us page you may also choose that color.
>>> 
>>>> I get an error when I try to open the Loudness Normalization paper on the Papers page.
>>> 
>>> It works for me. 
>>> 
>>>> In addition to getting this working, we want to have a direct PDF download link.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps. It works for me like it is already. 
>>> 
>>>> The Loudness Normalization paper has a tidal logo. That is not appropriate for this paper. If we want a graphic associated with this paper, maybe use this
>>> 
>>> Why not the MLA logo? Perhaps with a certain background color.
>>> 
>>>> We do want to include a link to Eelco's paper (https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM <https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM>) on the Papers page
>>> 
>>> Yes, with another background color maybe, in the right column. 
>>> 
>>>> We have decided not to have an About Us page; all that information is on the Home page. You have removed the About Us link from navigation at the top of the pages. We still have an About Us navigation at the bottom of the pages.
>>> 
>>> It?s fine with me: some people search for a ?home? button. Others for an ?about us? page. They will all arrive at the same page now...
>>> 
>>> Let?s get this site on air as soon as possible. It is already much better than what we have now...
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Eelco
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MLA mailing list
>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

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From kevin.gross at avanw.com  Mon Mar 19 00:44:09 2018
From: kevin.gross at avanw.com (Kevin Gross)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 17:44:09 -0600
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <08E2FC7F-1F13-43BB-AF5D-5A3F05E91163@grimmaudio.com>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1rC7oad5kUreAEHptYwR0pUBNR7wdBx15DRgc35Wq0OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D703EBA4-CBB9-4CE4-845E-082CC82C4E71@digido.com>
	<5D70F5AE-CAA0-4F9D-AA00-E40BF7782AEE@grimmaudio.com>
	<69A578AA-9F55-40AA-9928-582B8AE9D05F@digido.com>
	<351D5CE0-916B-4358-8855-BF453BBE4B09@digido.com>
	<FCAAC86F-F57D-445F-BCF8-C008F3F75328@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0zTGwwunASWVLn8s=Mg-EpYV-r-SC9ojGNFDC_WTFR6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxex+qa-b2-M49X1niSsE9jW+EYJXEDwrgbWPyXcXQJqFiRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56E22902-E483-494E-859B-97CBBB2F6753@grimmaudio.com>
	<D3E62453-050B-45F5-AA3E-1CDB7A867102@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<A458F312-C9F1-4EC5-97AB-B6AADA6140C3@gmail.com>
	<F647FBBB-FD22-42BA-BF8B-A0A32F31BA21@mac.com>
	<3922a1ce-7fd4-a290-10b6-6dd38d57cbe4@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0B5F6pKhiEBcCFS7995Hw6UKiOz+=os9CfhzaeBPYTbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<b1b5dceb-3ed1-7d3d-4139-0e424a8c95b4@digido.com>
	<89CCD91F-D8EC-41C0-B9BE-227AC5E9697B@gmail.com>
	<d6c69809-9c70-498f-7209-4f1260ff96bf@digido.com>
	<D34A92FC-15E6-4F69-AC90-AC7C559EB47C@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3p0y88NDjb9ZqZEyZYPjmDkWGr9nQaVXmhe57UZPuF-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
	<E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>
	<08E2FC7F-1F13-43BB-AF5D-5A3F05E91163@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <CALw1_Q2iUaHOHbvvms6Vgnjy2M2b6FCKxbm-6zSc=fv3-TGGiQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Robin,

Things are still a bit weird for me accessing the paper but with recent
changes (I assume) I was able to finally see it.

So, we have satisfied all the needed edits to go live so we can go live.

I hope we can keep the work going here. The most important thing still to
be done is adding access to Eelco's Tidal paper. I will try to make that
happen now that Robin has granted us greater editing privilege.

Kevin Gross - AVA Networks

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 3:14 PM, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com> wrote:

> Hi Robin,
>
> The paper link looks more like a logo now, so people may miss it. Do you
> have an idea how to make it look more like a link to a paper?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers,
> Eelco
>
> Hi Kevin,
>
> Apologies for the delay, this time on my side (just finished a big
> project). I changed the logo for the paper, and I don?t see any issues with
> accessing the papers. Tried it on many browsers. What are you seeing when
> you browse this page?: http://music-loudness.
> eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/papers/
>
> I also made the MLA account a full administrator, so you should see
> everything. The security is up and running. I did some stress testing and
> it seems to be fine. On top of this, we have continuous backups going.
>
> Please let me know what else you would like me to do before going live?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Robin
>
>
> On 07 Mar 2018, at 16:30, Kevin Gross <kevin.gross at avanw.com> wrote:
>
> Some of my requests to Robin I thought needed to happen before we go live
> and some can wait. I can sort them into nice vs. needed but I'm a little
> concerned about waiting because there doesn't appear to be a lot of
> bandwidth in the group to work on this so I'd have to assume we'd be
> waiting a while.
>
> In the department of things that need to be fixed, we can't have the Tidal
> logo on the link to our paper and we want to add a link to Eelco's paper.
> We definitely need to fix access to the papers. It is working for Eelco. It
> is not working for me. Can we get others to visit the page (
> http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/projects/
> loudnessnormalization/) and report what they're seeing.
>
> Ian, thanks for fixing text layout on the home/about page. I should have
> tried harder there. There are layout things any of us can do and there are
> others which only Robin can do.
>
> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 4:04 AM, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Kevin,
>>
>> I agree with Eelco, this is fine for now and we should make it live. I?ve
>> made the text on the Home page left-justified for now so you can all see
>> how it looks - personally I prefer it.
>>
>> I was going to change the ?link colour? to make hyperlinks stand out
>> more, but I don?t seem to have access to the Appearance controls,
>> presumably because our account is Editor only, not Admin ? Robin, please
>> can you adjust this ?
>>
>> And also, do you have any security plugins installed yet ? As a minimum I
>> think we need the free versions of WordFence and iThemes Security, or
>> similar.
>>
>> Finally the title currently shows up as the default ?Music Loudness
>> Alliance - Just another Wordpress site?, we need to correct that.
>>
>> Overall looking great !
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>> PS. One trivial question - is it overkill to have the logo in the footer
>> as well as the header, when the pages have so little content ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6 Mar 2018, at 22:52, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kevin,
>>
>> It?s a madhouse here, sorry for my radio silence.
>>
>> Thanks for getting the links that I was able to recover put up on the
>> Links page. We haven't heard from any other members about the ones I was
>> not able to recover so we'll just have to go with what we have there.
>>
>>
>> The links that are there seem fine to me. We can always add more later
>> on, let?s not wait with releasing the current version.
>>
>> I do have the correct text and links on the Home page now. If anyone sees
>> any problems or potential improvements there, let me know. I had to move
>> the content out of the "Left Column" content area so I could add the
>> hyperlinks (perhaps I can type HTML code in the Left Column text box but
>> that doesn't seem right). This puts the content in the middle of the page
>> which is fine. All the text is centered which is not so pretty.
>>
>>
>> I?m actually fine with it. And I _love_ the logo!
>>
>> Let's go for left justified or something. Also the styling on the links
>> is too subtle - they show up as underlined only when you hover the mouse
>> over them. Let's have something a bit more obvious to indicate these are
>> clickable.
>>
>>
>> I agree. What about the simple solution: only make the ?here? words
>> clickable and underline it always. And the title of our paper should be in
>> Italic.
>>
>> The links on the Links page and paper on the Papers are in the "Left
>> Column" content area. We'll need to find a way to make layout consistent
>> with the Home page.
>>
>>
>> Yes. I?d say: just choose the same background color as the background of
>> the ?Papers? text. That way it looks more like the home page. In the
>> Contact us page you may also choose that color.
>>
>> I get an error when I try to open the Loudness Normalization paper on the
>> Papers page.
>>
>>
>> It works for me.
>>
>> In addition to getting this working, we want to have a direct PDF
>> download link.
>>
>>
>> Perhaps. It works for me like it is already.
>>
>> The Loudness Normalization paper has a tidal logo. That is not
>> appropriate for this paper. If we want a graphic associated with this
>> paper, maybe use this
>>
>>
>> Why not the MLA logo? Perhaps with a certain background color.
>>
>> We do want to include a link to Eelco's paper (
>> https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM) on the
>> Papers page
>>
>>
>> Yes, with another background color maybe, in the right column.
>>
>> We have decided not to have an About Us page; all that information is on
>> the Home page. You have removed the About Us link from navigation at the
>> top of the pages. We still have an About Us navigation at the bottom of the
>> pages.
>>
>>
>> It?s fine with me: some people search for a ?home? button. Others for an
>> ?about us? page. They will all arrive at the same page now...
>>
>> Let?s get this site on air as soon as possible. It is already much better
>> than what we have now...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Eelco
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>
>
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From kevin.gross at avanw.com  Mon Mar 19 01:04:12 2018
From: kevin.gross at avanw.com (Kevin Gross)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 18:04:12 -0600
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <5366BFE7-9961-4691-9432-CF6A80C6EF1B@grimmaudio.com>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<47AC1187-9B8B-464B-94B9-5190262AED39@grimmaudio.com>
	<5896106d-98bd-49be-7cd3-8f001d8fd66b@digido.com>
	<FFCCCBBB-C717-4374-8A7F-F98FEA4890F4@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q09-P5KoYpuPSsL-8T-SquZNOQ=MpSSLqbXpxf0+43XHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<03ef5f52-3d0f-afcf-e356-307d3dced0e8@digido.com>
	<5366BFE7-9961-4691-9432-CF6A80C6EF1B@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <CALw1_Q3Npad7wWq+uJAwJ7T98_EAYHMTpQgtFyQHpCx5tJbsVA@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, Eelco is right. Lift the soft parts. This does not require crushing
the loud parts.

We're not going to come up with an optimal solution for challenging
environments. We're going to come up with something that improves listener
experience and maintains artistic integrity and is transparent in a
reasonable listening environment. We may fail. I think it may be time to
try though.

The other thing that may be related, or not, is that we know many streaming
services are doing some sort of limiting. It might be good to put together
some technical recommendations to avoid nasty limiter implementation and
tuning. If it's gonna happen, and it's happening, it might as well be done
right.

Kevin Gross - AVA Networks

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com> wrote:

> Hi Bob,
>
> Like Kevin suggested between the lines: it may be about time to define the
> ?noisy environment? processing. What I read in your message is that the
> micro dynamics should not be changed. That means we still need a target of
> -14 LUFS or lower (with 3 dB extra headroom): the processing is on the
> softer part of the sound.
>
> I think it is time for MLA to again show the way to the future and write a
> white paper about this. Perhaps we better wait with publication until -23
> LUFS targets on smart phones are possible. But then we should have a
> solution ready to help people control the huge dynamic range they got.
> Would you be willing to take the lead in writing this white paper?
>
> Cheers,
> Eelco
>
> Dynamics processing in streaming on mastered material is just another
> backwards step to the ugly Orban, ugly-sounding and ugly radio land. No
> ONE, I mean no ONE knows what's optimal for every venue. NO ENGINEER has
> preknowlege of what the user's venue or user's conditions are going to be.
> And giving the user the choice rarely results in anything good.
>
> Furthermore, presets called "Loud" and "Normal" are just ways of making
> the sound "squashed" and "more squashed". Applying downward compression,
> limiting and Orban style processing presets on top of music which can vary
> from the most unprocessed to the most smashed is just going to further and
> seriously distort the smashed recordings, and ruin the depth and clarity of
> any high quality material. Thus returning to the distortions that we
> successfully got rid of by inventing R-128 in the first place! This is WHY
> the EBU and ATSC do NOT advocate ANY loudness processing, simply loudness
> normalization. Do you think that Spotify knows better than experienced
> broadcast engineers?
>
> There are two proper solutions to the noisy venue problem. The eventual
> and proper one is to move to is a noise-based processor that incorporates
> the microphone in the user device and raises the gain of low level material
> without any level-based time-constants.
> As we wait for a microphone-noise-based processor to be perfected, I would
> propose interim presets labeled "noisy environment" "medium noisey
> environment' and "quiet environment". These would use parallel compression
> which is designed to be invisible at high levels and only effective
> meaningful at low levels. NOT the kind of processing that I wager Spotify
> is using. I wager they're using ugly, undiscriminated, downward compression
> and limiting.
>
> Otherwise vendors and streamers should keep their noses out of the
> processing business. It failed and sucked with radio and they're just bound
> to repeat the mistakes of FM radio :-(
>
>
>
> Let's call a spade a spade and do things right.
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> On 3/16/18 12:07 PM, Kevin Gross wrote:
>
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 3:22 AM, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Let?s hope we can nudge Apple to implement the ?extra headroom with
>> normalization on? option soon. Then we just switch to a -23 LUFS target and
>> have a beer :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Eelco
>>
>> We have talked in this group in the past about the potential need for
> different processing for different listening scenarios. Spotify is touching
> on this with their "Loud", "Normal", "Quiet" options. Based on the fact
> that loudness-normalized material is played off a different server, it
> appears they're doing some dynamics processing. We've said that we'd look
> at this once we had solid recommendations for unprocessed loudness
> normalization. Maybe it is time to get started.
>
> Kevin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing listMLA at grimmaudio.nlhttp://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>
>
> --
>
>
> If you want good sound on your album, come to
> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 <(407)%20831-0233> DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
> Author: *Mastering Audio              *Digital Domain Website <http://www.digido.com/>
>
> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>
>
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From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Mon Mar 19 14:39:24 2018
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 13:39:24 +0000
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <CALw1_Q3Npad7wWq+uJAwJ7T98_EAYHMTpQgtFyQHpCx5tJbsVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<47AC1187-9B8B-464B-94B9-5190262AED39@grimmaudio.com>
	<5896106d-98bd-49be-7cd3-8f001d8fd66b@digido.com>
	<FFCCCBBB-C717-4374-8A7F-F98FEA4890F4@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q09-P5KoYpuPSsL-8T-SquZNOQ=MpSSLqbXpxf0+43XHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<03ef5f52-3d0f-afcf-e356-307d3dced0e8@digido.com>
	<5366BFE7-9961-4691-9432-CF6A80C6EF1B@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3Npad7wWq+uJAwJ7T98_EAYHMTpQgtFyQHpCx5tJbsVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <10D1E510-F60F-4DE1-8B24-38BCD14AF272@mastering-media.co.uk>


> The other thing that may be related, or not, is that we know many streaming services are doing some sort of limiting

Actually only Spotify is applying limiting at the moment, to the best of my knowledge.

> It might be good to put together some technical recommendations to avoid nasty limiter implementation and tuning. If it's gonna happen, and it's happening, it might as well be done right

Personally I think we should only discourage it from happening, but fwiw one of the AES groups has already created a freely available limiter for the purpose of achieving certain loudness targets (eg. -16 LUFS from a -23 LUFS source) I believe. I haven?t tried it out, though.

My point being, the horse may already have bolted in this case. I certainly agree that MLA could make a very positive future contribution by describing the best way noisy environments can be handled in portable players, though.

Personally I?ve found that top-down limiting has NO benefit in noisy environments, in fact it has a detrimental effect - the ?blunting? of transients and removal of detail makes things less intelligible, not more.

Ian

From bobkatz at digido.com  Mon Mar 19 19:38:49 2018
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 14:38:49 -0400
Subject: [MLA] Attention Robin. Also: Re: Interesting info about Spotify
 normalization
In-Reply-To: <10D1E510-F60F-4DE1-8B24-38BCD14AF272@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<47AC1187-9B8B-464B-94B9-5190262AED39@grimmaudio.com>
	<5896106d-98bd-49be-7cd3-8f001d8fd66b@digido.com>
	<FFCCCBBB-C717-4374-8A7F-F98FEA4890F4@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q09-P5KoYpuPSsL-8T-SquZNOQ=MpSSLqbXpxf0+43XHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<03ef5f52-3d0f-afcf-e356-307d3dced0e8@digido.com>
	<5366BFE7-9961-4691-9432-CF6A80C6EF1B@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3Npad7wWq+uJAwJ7T98_EAYHMTpQgtFyQHpCx5tJbsVA@mail.gmail.com>
	<10D1E510-F60F-4DE1-8B24-38BCD14AF272@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4c8449cf-ba18-b0bf-1fa6-fe911b8f686c@digido.com>

You betcha, Ian! Good observation.

Anyway, bottoms up.? Upward compression only, minimal or negligible 
effect on the mid to loud passages. This has been my proposal always! 
And make it optional, list: for noisy locations to make it clear what 
you are doing.

ROBIN, please give me a link so I can change the DNS and we can go live.


Thanks,



Bob



On 3/19/18 9:39 AM, Ian Shepherd wrote:
>> The other thing that may be related, or not, is that we know many streaming services are doing some sort of limiting
> Actually only Spotify is applying limiting at the moment, to the best of my knowledge.
>
>> It might be good to put together some technical recommendations to avoid nasty limiter implementation and tuning. If it's gonna happen, and it's happening, it might as well be done right
> Personally I think we should only discourage it from happening, but fwiw one of the AES groups has already created a freely available limiter for the purpose of achieving certain loudness targets (eg. -16 LUFS from a -23 LUFS source) I believe. I haven?t tried it out, though.
>
> My point being, the horse may already have bolted in this case. I certainly agree that MLA could make a very positive future contribution by describing the best way noisy environments can be handled in portable players, though.
>
> Personally I?ve found that top-down limiting has NO benefit in noisy environments, in fact it has a detrimental effect - the ?blunting? of transients and removal of detail makes things less intelligible, not more.
>
> Ian
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio *Digital Domain 
Website <http://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.

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From kevin.gross at avanw.com  Mon Mar 19 22:31:57 2018
From: kevin.gross at avanw.com (Kevin Gross)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 15:31:57 -0600
Subject: [MLA] Interesting info about Spotify normalization
In-Reply-To: <10D1E510-F60F-4DE1-8B24-38BCD14AF272@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <826D9CC0-538D-4788-8CF8-1B286F8F84D1@grimmaudio.com>
	<AD69121D-73DF-4EC5-99E1-2CFCC83EFE22@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<47AC1187-9B8B-464B-94B9-5190262AED39@grimmaudio.com>
	<5896106d-98bd-49be-7cd3-8f001d8fd66b@digido.com>
	<FFCCCBBB-C717-4374-8A7F-F98FEA4890F4@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q09-P5KoYpuPSsL-8T-SquZNOQ=MpSSLqbXpxf0+43XHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<03ef5f52-3d0f-afcf-e356-307d3dced0e8@digido.com>
	<5366BFE7-9961-4691-9432-CF6A80C6EF1B@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3Npad7wWq+uJAwJ7T98_EAYHMTpQgtFyQHpCx5tJbsVA@mail.gmail.com>
	<10D1E510-F60F-4DE1-8B24-38BCD14AF272@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CALw1_Q2fbP1bpZH4ijR794dedhV0ppKM2uQ3m-WzO9bKh5=_nA@mail.gmail.com>

There was a crappy limiter in the iPod and slightly less crappy one in
iTunes both were part of Sound Check. Clearly that's stale information.
What's the current Apple situation?

Kevin Gross - AVA Networks

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:39 AM, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk>
wrote:

>
> > The other thing that may be related, or not, is that we know many
> streaming services are doing some sort of limiting
>
> Actually only Spotify is applying limiting at the moment, to the best of
> my knowledge.
>
> > It might be good to put together some technical recommendations to avoid
> nasty limiter implementation and tuning. If it's gonna happen, and it's
> happening, it might as well be done right
>
> Personally I think we should only discourage it from happening, but fwiw
> one of the AES groups has already created a freely available limiter for
> the purpose of achieving certain loudness targets (eg. -16 LUFS from a -23
> LUFS source) I believe. I haven?t tried it out, though.
>
> My point being, the horse may already have bolted in this case. I
> certainly agree that MLA could make a very positive future contribution by
> describing the best way noisy environments can be handled in portable
> players, though.
>
> Personally I?ve found that top-down limiting has NO benefit in noisy
> environments, in fact it has a detrimental effect - the ?blunting? of
> transients and removal of detail makes things less intelligible, not more.
>
> Ian
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>
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From robinreumers at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 20:14:31 2018
From: robinreumers at gmail.com (Robin Reumers)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 20:14:31 +0100
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <CALw1_Q2iUaHOHbvvms6Vgnjy2M2b6FCKxbm-6zSc=fv3-TGGiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1rC7oad5kUreAEHptYwR0pUBNR7wdBx15DRgc35Wq0OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D703EBA4-CBB9-4CE4-845E-082CC82C4E71@digido.com>
	<5D70F5AE-CAA0-4F9D-AA00-E40BF7782AEE@grimmaudio.com>
	<69A578AA-9F55-40AA-9928-582B8AE9D05F@digido.com>
	<351D5CE0-916B-4358-8855-BF453BBE4B09@digido.com>
	<FCAAC86F-F57D-445F-BCF8-C008F3F75328@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0zTGwwunASWVLn8s=Mg-EpYV-r-SC9ojGNFDC_WTFR6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxex+qa-b2-M49X1niSsE9jW+EYJXEDwrgbWPyXcXQJqFiRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56E22902-E483-494E-859B-97CBBB2F6753@grimmaudio.com>
	<D3E62453-050B-45F5-AA3E-1CDB7A867102@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<A458F312-C9F1-4EC5-97AB-B6AADA6140C3@gmail.com>
	<F647FBBB-FD22-42BA-BF8B-A0A32F31BA21@mac.com>
	<3922a1ce-7fd4-a290-10b6-6dd38d57cbe4@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0B5F6pKhiEBcCFS7995Hw6UKiOz+=os9CfhzaeBPYTbQ@mail.gmail.com>
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	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
	<E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>
	<08E2FC7F-1F13-43BB-AF5D-5A3F05E91163@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q2iUaHOHbvvms6Vgnjy2M2b6FCKxbm-6zSc=fv3-TGGiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8583A5B-7A50-45E1-888B-AC4DCF867828@gmail.com>

Hi all,

The website is live: http://music-loudness.com <http://music-loudness.com/>
I also updated the paper graphic.

Best wishes,

Robin

> On 19 Mar 2018, at 00:44, Kevin Gross <kevin.gross at avanw.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Robin,
> 
> Things are still a bit weird for me accessing the paper but with recent changes (I assume) I was able to finally see it.
> 
> So, we have satisfied all the needed edits to go live so we can go live. 
> 
> I hope we can keep the work going here. The most important thing still to be done is adding access to Eelco's Tidal paper. I will try to make that happen now that Robin has granted us greater editing privilege.
> 
> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
> 
> On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 3:14 PM, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com <mailto:eelco at grimmaudio.com>> wrote:
> Hi Robin,
> 
> The paper link looks more like a logo now, so people may miss it. Do you have an idea how to make it look more like a link to a paper?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Cheers,
> Eelco
> 
>> Hi Kevin,
>> 
>> Apologies for the delay, this time on my side (just finished a big project). I changed the logo for the paper, and I don?t see any issues with accessing the papers. Tried it on many browsers. What are you seeing when you browse this page?: http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/papers/ <http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/papers/>
>> 
>> I also made the MLA account a full administrator, so you should see everything. The security is up and running. I did some stress testing and it seems to be fine. On top of this, we have continuous backups going.
>> 
>> Please let me know what else you would like me to do before going live?
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Robin
>> 
>> 
>>> On 07 Mar 2018, at 16:30, Kevin Gross <kevin.gross at avanw.com <mailto:kevin.gross at avanw.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Some of my requests to Robin I thought needed to happen before we go live and some can wait. I can sort them into nice vs. needed but I'm a little concerned about waiting because there doesn't appear to be a lot of bandwidth in the group to work on this so I'd have to assume we'd be waiting a while.
>>> 
>>> In the department of things that need to be fixed, we can't have the Tidal logo on the link to our paper and we want to add a link to Eelco's paper. We definitely need to fix access to the papers. It is working for Eelco. It is not working for me. Can we get others to visit the page (http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/projects/loudnessnormalization/ <http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/projects/loudnessnormalization/>) and report what they're seeing.
>>> 
>>> Ian, thanks for fixing text layout on the home/about page. I should have tried harder there. There are layout things any of us can do and there are others which only Robin can do.
>>> 
>>> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 4:04 AM, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk <mailto:ian at mastering-media.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Kevin,
>>> 
>>> I agree with Eelco, this is fine for now and we should make it live. I?ve made the text on the Home page left-justified for now so you can all see how it looks - personally I prefer it.
>>> 
>>> I was going to change the ?link colour? to make hyperlinks stand out more, but I don?t seem to have access to the Appearance controls, presumably because our account is Editor only, not Admin ? Robin, please can you adjust this ? 
>>> 
>>> And also, do you have any security plugins installed yet ? As a minimum I think we need the free versions of WordFence and iThemes Security, or similar. 
>>> 
>>> Finally the title currently shows up as the default ?Music Loudness Alliance - Just another Wordpress site?, we need to correct that.
>>> 
>>> Overall looking great !
>>> 
>>> Ian
>>> 
>>> 
>>> PS. One trivial question - is it overkill to have the logo in the footer as well as the header, when the pages have so little content ?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 6 Mar 2018, at 22:52, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com <mailto:eelco at grimmaudio.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Kevin,
>>>> 
>>>> It?s a madhouse here, sorry for my radio silence. 
>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for getting the links that I was able to recover put up on the Links page. We haven't heard from any other members about the ones I was not able to recover so we'll just have to go with what we have there.
>>>> 
>>>> The links that are there seem fine to me. We can always add more later on, let?s not wait with releasing the current version.
>>>> 
>>>>> I do have the correct text and links on the Home page now. If anyone sees any problems or potential improvements there, let me know. I had to move the content out of the "Left Column" content area so I could add the hyperlinks (perhaps I can type HTML code in the Left Column text box but that doesn't seem right). This puts the content in the middle of the page which is fine. All the text is centered which is not so pretty.
>>>> 
>>>> I?m actually fine with it. And I _love_ the logo!
>>>> 
>>>>> Let's go for left justified or something. Also the styling on the links is too subtle - they show up as underlined only when you hover the mouse over them. Let's have something a bit more obvious to indicate these are clickable.
>>>> 
>>>> I agree. What about the simple solution: only make the ?here? words clickable and underline it always. And the title of our paper should be in Italic. 
>>>> 
>>>>> The links on the Links page and paper on the Papers are in the "Left Column" content area. We'll need to find a way to make layout consistent with the Home page.
>>>> 
>>>> Yes. I?d say: just choose the same background color as the background of the ?Papers? text. That way it looks more like the home page. In the Contact us page you may also choose that color.
>>>> 
>>>>> I get an error when I try to open the Loudness Normalization paper on the Papers page.
>>>> 
>>>> It works for me. 
>>>> 
>>>>> In addition to getting this working, we want to have a direct PDF download link.
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps. It works for me like it is already. 
>>>> 
>>>>> The Loudness Normalization paper has a tidal logo. That is not appropriate for this paper. If we want a graphic associated with this paper, maybe use this
>>>> 
>>>> Why not the MLA logo? Perhaps with a certain background color.
>>>> 
>>>>> We do want to include a link to Eelco's paper (https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM <https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM>) on the Papers page
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, with another background color maybe, in the right column. 
>>>> 
>>>>> We have decided not to have an About Us page; all that information is on the Home page. You have removed the About Us link from navigation at the top of the pages. We still have an About Us navigation at the bottom of the pages.
>>>> 
>>>> It?s fine with me: some people search for a ?home? button. Others for an ?about us? page. They will all arrive at the same page now...
>>>> 
>>>> Let?s get this site on air as soon as possible. It is already much better than what we have now...
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Eelco
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> MLA mailing list
>>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MLA mailing list
>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MLA mailing list
>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

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From eelco at grimmaudio.com  Fri Mar 23 00:05:20 2018
From: eelco at grimmaudio.com (Grimm | Eelco)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 00:05:20 +0100
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <B8583A5B-7A50-45E1-888B-AC4DCF867828@gmail.com>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1rC7oad5kUreAEHptYwR0pUBNR7wdBx15DRgc35Wq0OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D703EBA4-CBB9-4CE4-845E-082CC82C4E71@digido.com>
	<5D70F5AE-CAA0-4F9D-AA00-E40BF7782AEE@grimmaudio.com>
	<69A578AA-9F55-40AA-9928-582B8AE9D05F@digido.com>
	<351D5CE0-916B-4358-8855-BF453BBE4B09@digido.com>
	<FCAAC86F-F57D-445F-BCF8-C008F3F75328@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0zTGwwunASWVLn8s=Mg-EpYV-r-SC9ojGNFDC_WTFR6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxex+qa-b2-M49X1niSsE9jW+EYJXEDwrgbWPyXcXQJqFiRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56E22902-E483-494E-859B-97CBBB2F6753@grimmaudio.com>
	<D3E62453-050B-45F5-AA3E-1CDB7A867102@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<A458F312-C9F1-4EC5-97AB-B6AADA6140C3@gmail.com>
	<F647FBBB-FD22-42BA-BF8B-A0A32F31BA21@mac.com>
	<3922a1ce-7fd4-a290-10b6-6dd38d57cbe4@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0B5F6pKhiEBcCFS7995Hw6UKiOz+=os9CfhzaeBPYTbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<b1b5dceb-3ed1-7d3d-4139-0e424a8c95b4@digido.com>
	<89CCD91F-D8EC-41C0-B9BE-227AC5E9697B@gmail.com>
	<d6c69809-9c70-498f-7209-4f1260ff96bf@digido.com>
	<D34A92FC-15E6-4F69-AC90-AC7C559EB47C@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3p0y88NDjb9ZqZEyZYPjmDkWGr9nQaVXmhe57UZPuF-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
	<E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>
	<08E2FC7F-1F13-43BB-AF5D-5A3F05E91163@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q2iUaHOHbvvms6Vgnjy2M2b6FCKxbm-6zSc=fv3-TGGiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<B8583A5B-7A50-45E1-888B-AC4DCF867828@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9D204426-BF61-44B6-A0AC-933EF37EF75F@grimmaudio.com>

Hi Robin,

> The website is live: http://music-loudness.com <http://music-loudness.com/>
> I also updated the paper graphic.

Wow! Thank you so much Robin! And everyone else who contributed to this website... It looks very professional. 

I guess it?s now time to reach out to your Google contacts, Kevin?

All the best,
Eelco
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From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Fri Mar 23 01:01:31 2018
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 00:01:31 +0000
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <9D204426-BF61-44B6-A0AC-933EF37EF75F@grimmaudio.com>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1rC7oad5kUreAEHptYwR0pUBNR7wdBx15DRgc35Wq0OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D703EBA4-CBB9-4CE4-845E-082CC82C4E71@digido.com>
	<5D70F5AE-CAA0-4F9D-AA00-E40BF7782AEE@grimmaudio.com>
	<69A578AA-9F55-40AA-9928-582B8AE9D05F@digido.com>
	<351D5CE0-916B-4358-8855-BF453BBE4B09@digido.com>
	<FCAAC86F-F57D-445F-BCF8-C008F3F75328@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0zTGwwunASWVLn8s=Mg-EpYV-r-SC9ojGNFDC_WTFR6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxex+qa-b2-M49X1niSsE9jW+EYJXEDwrgbWPyXcXQJqFiRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56E22902-E483-494E-859B-97CBBB2F6753@grimmaudio.com>
	<D3E62453-050B-45F5-AA3E-1CDB7A867102@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<A458F312-C9F1-4EC5-97AB-B6AADA6140C3@gmail.com>
	<F647FBBB-FD22-42BA-BF8B-A0A32F31BA21@mac.com>
	<3922a1ce-7fd4-a290-10b6-6dd38d57cbe4@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0B5F6pKhiEBcCFS7995Hw6UKiOz+=os9CfhzaeBPYTbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<b1b5dceb-3ed1-7d3d-4139-0e424a8c95b4@digido.com>
	<89CCD91F-D8EC-41C0-B9BE-227AC5E9697B@gmail.com>
	<d6c69809-9c70-498f-7209-4f1260ff96bf@digido.com>
	<D34A92FC-15E6-4F69-AC90-AC7C559EB47C@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3p0y88NDjb9ZqZEyZYPjmDkWGr9nQaVXmhe57UZPuF-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
	<E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>
	<08E2FC7F-1F13-43BB-AF5D-5A3F05E91163@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q2iUaHOHbvvms6Vgnjy2M2b6FCKxbm-6zSc=fv3-TGGiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<B8583A5B-7A50-45E1-888B-AC4DCF867828@gmail.com>
	<9D204426-BF61-44B6-A0AC-933EF37EF75F@grimmaudio.com>
Message-ID: <5F6BCE1C-AD41-40C0-8D63-F979BC627AB4@mastering-media.co.uk>


Great stuff ! 

I?m seeing the mobile-optimised version when I look at it in Safari on my Mac though. (But not Chrome). I?ve emptied the cache - is anyone else seeing this ?

Ian




> On 22 Mar 2018, at 23:05, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Robin,
> 
>> The website is live: http://music-loudness.com <http://music-loudness.com/>
>> I also updated the paper graphic.
> 
> Wow! Thank you so much Robin! And everyone else who contributed to this website... It looks very professional. 
> 
> I guess it?s now time to reach out to your Google contacts, Kevin?
> 
> All the best,
> Eelco
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

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From gatewaybob at mac.com  Fri Mar 23 02:13:39 2018
From: gatewaybob at mac.com (Robert Ludwig)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 21:13:39 -0400
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <5F6BCE1C-AD41-40C0-8D63-F979BC627AB4@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1rC7oad5kUreAEHptYwR0pUBNR7wdBx15DRgc35Wq0OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D703EBA4-CBB9-4CE4-845E-082CC82C4E71@digido.com>
	<5D70F5AE-CAA0-4F9D-AA00-E40BF7782AEE@grimmaudio.com>
	<69A578AA-9F55-40AA-9928-582B8AE9D05F@digido.com>
	<351D5CE0-916B-4358-8855-BF453BBE4B09@digido.com>
	<FCAAC86F-F57D-445F-BCF8-C008F3F75328@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0zTGwwunASWVLn8s=Mg-EpYV-r-SC9ojGNFDC_WTFR6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxex+qa-b2-M49X1niSsE9jW+EYJXEDwrgbWPyXcXQJqFiRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56E22902-E483-494E-859B-97CBBB2F6753@grimmaudio.com>
	<D3E62453-050B-45F5-AA3E-1CDB7A867102@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<A458F312-C9F1-4EC5-97AB-B6AADA6140C3@gmail.com>
	<F647FBBB-FD22-42BA-BF8B-A0A32F31BA21@mac.com>
	<3922a1ce-7fd4-a290-10b6-6dd38d57cbe4@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0B5F6pKhiEBcCFS7995Hw6UKiOz+=os9CfhzaeBPYTbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<b1b5dceb-3ed1-7d3d-4139-0e424a8c95b4@digido.com>
	<89CCD91F-D8EC-41C0-B9BE-227AC5E9697B@gmail.com>
	<d6c69809-9c70-498f-7209-4f1260ff96bf@digido.com>
	<D34A92FC-15E6-4F69-AC90-AC7C559EB47C@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3p0y88NDjb9ZqZEyZYPjmDkWGr9nQaVXmhe57UZPuF-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
	<E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>
	<08E2FC7F-1F13-43BB-AF5D-5A3F05E91163@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q2iUaHOHbvvms6Vgnjy2M2b6FCKxbm-6zSc=fv3-TGGiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<B8583A5B-7A50-45E1-888B-AC4DCF867828@gmail.com>
	<9D204426-BF61-44B6-A0AC-933EF37EF75F@grimmaudio.com>
	<5F6BCE1C-AD41-40C0-8D63-F979BC627AB4@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9EA4AA14-0625-48C7-9EF9-292EE27DA597@mac.com>

I tried to look at Eelco?s paper but it would not open.
Safari on my MacBook Pro.

Bob L.

> On Mar 22, 2018, at 8:01 PM, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> Great stuff ! 
> 
> I?m seeing the mobile-optimised version when I look at it in Safari on my Mac though. (But not Chrome). I?ve emptied the cache - is anyone else seeing this ?
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 22 Mar 2018, at 23:05, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Robin,
>> 
>>> The website is live: http://music-loudness.com
>>> I also updated the paper graphic.
>> 
>> Wow! Thank you so much Robin! And everyone else who contributed to this website... It looks very professional. 
>> 
>> I guess it?s now time to reach out to your Google contacts, Kevin?
>> 
>> All the best,
>> Eelco
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
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From robinreumers at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 10:34:40 2018
From: robinreumers at gmail.com (Robin Reumers)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:34:40 +0100
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <5F6BCE1C-AD41-40C0-8D63-F979BC627AB4@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1rC7oad5kUreAEHptYwR0pUBNR7wdBx15DRgc35Wq0OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D703EBA4-CBB9-4CE4-845E-082CC82C4E71@digido.com>
	<5D70F5AE-CAA0-4F9D-AA00-E40BF7782AEE@grimmaudio.com>
	<69A578AA-9F55-40AA-9928-582B8AE9D05F@digido.com>
	<351D5CE0-916B-4358-8855-BF453BBE4B09@digido.com>
	<FCAAC86F-F57D-445F-BCF8-C008F3F75328@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0zTGwwunASWVLn8s=Mg-EpYV-r-SC9ojGNFDC_WTFR6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxex+qa-b2-M49X1niSsE9jW+EYJXEDwrgbWPyXcXQJqFiRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56E22902-E483-494E-859B-97CBBB2F6753@grimmaudio.com>
	<D3E62453-050B-45F5-AA3E-1CDB7A867102@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<A458F312-C9F1-4EC5-97AB-B6AADA6140C3@gmail.com>
	<F647FBBB-FD22-42BA-BF8B-A0A32F31BA21@mac.com>
	<3922a1ce-7fd4-a290-10b6-6dd38d57cbe4@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0B5F6pKhiEBcCFS7995Hw6UKiOz+=os9CfhzaeBPYTbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<b1b5dceb-3ed1-7d3d-4139-0e424a8c95b4@digido.com>
	<89CCD91F-D8EC-41C0-B9BE-227AC5E9697B@gmail.com>
	<d6c69809-9c70-498f-7209-4f1260ff96bf@digido.com>
	<D34A92FC-15E6-4F69-AC90-AC7C559EB47C@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3p0y88NDjb9ZqZEyZYPjmDkWGr9nQaVXmhe57UZPuF-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
	<E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>
	<08E2FC7F-1F13-43BB-AF5D-5A3F05E91163@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q2iUaHOHbvvms6Vgnjy2M2b6FCKxbm-6zSc=fv3-TGGiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<B8583A5B-7A50-45E1-888B-AC4DCF867828@gmail.com>
	<9D204426-BF61-44B6-A0AC-933EF37EF75F@grimmaudio.com>
	<5F6BCE1C-AD41-40C0-8D63-F979BC627AB4@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2BDDC323-5CEC-4B56-BD6C-80E20A4BE655@gmail.com>

Hi Ian,

I just checked the template and the mobile version is shown when your screen is less than 990 pixels wide. So normally when you drag the screen wider, it should show the normal version.
@Bob: I also fixed the paper on Safari.

Best wishes,

Robin

> On 23 Mar 2018, at 01:01, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> Great stuff ! 
> 
> I?m seeing the mobile-optimised version when I look at it in Safari on my Mac though. (But not Chrome). I?ve emptied the cache - is anyone else seeing this ?
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 22 Mar 2018, at 23:05, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com <mailto:eelco at grimmaudio.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Robin,
>> 
>>> The website is live: http://music-loudness.com <http://music-loudness.com/>
>>> I also updated the paper graphic.
>> 
>> Wow! Thank you so much Robin! And everyone else who contributed to this website... It looks very professional. 
>> 
>> I guess it?s now time to reach out to your Google contacts, Kevin?
>> 
>> All the best,
>> Eelco
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

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From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Fri Mar 23 11:11:23 2018
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:11:23 +0000
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <2BDDC323-5CEC-4B56-BD6C-80E20A4BE655@gmail.com>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1rC7oad5kUreAEHptYwR0pUBNR7wdBx15DRgc35Wq0OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D703EBA4-CBB9-4CE4-845E-082CC82C4E71@digido.com>
	<5D70F5AE-CAA0-4F9D-AA00-E40BF7782AEE@grimmaudio.com>
	<69A578AA-9F55-40AA-9928-582B8AE9D05F@digido.com>
	<351D5CE0-916B-4358-8855-BF453BBE4B09@digido.com>
	<FCAAC86F-F57D-445F-BCF8-C008F3F75328@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0zTGwwunASWVLn8s=Mg-EpYV-r-SC9ojGNFDC_WTFR6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxex+qa-b2-M49X1niSsE9jW+EYJXEDwrgbWPyXcXQJqFiRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56E22902-E483-494E-859B-97CBBB2F6753@grimmaudio.com>
	<D3E62453-050B-45F5-AA3E-1CDB7A867102@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<A458F312-C9F1-4EC5-97AB-B6AADA6140C3@gmail.com>
	<F647FBBB-FD22-42BA-BF8B-A0A32F31BA21@mac.com>
	<3922a1ce-7fd4-a290-10b6-6dd38d57cbe4@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0B5F6pKhiEBcCFS7995Hw6UKiOz+=os9CfhzaeBPYTbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<b1b5dceb-3ed1-7d3d-4139-0e424a8c95b4@digido.com>
	<89CCD91F-D8EC-41C0-B9BE-227AC5E9697B@gmail.com>
	<d6c69809-9c70-498f-7209-4f1260ff96bf@digido.com>
	<D34A92FC-15E6-4F69-AC90-AC7C559EB47C@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3p0y88NDjb9ZqZEyZYPjmDkWGr9nQaVXmhe57UZPuF-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
	<E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>
	<08E2FC7F-1F13-43BB-AF5D-5A3F05E91163@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q2iUaHOHbvvms6Vgnjy2M2b6FCKxbm-6zSc=fv3-TGGiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<B8583A5B-7A50-45E1-888B-AC4DCF867828@gmail.com>
	<9D204426-BF61-44B6-A0AC-933EF37EF75F@grimmaudio.com>
	<5F6BCE1C-AD41-40C0-8D63-F979BC627AB4@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<2BDDC323-5CEC-4B56-BD6C-80E20A4BE655@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0251C4A3-3CE6-4875-A69A-BD68EDFA3BD1@mastering-media.co.uk>


Hi Robin,

Thanks - my display is 1920x1080, but was displaying the mobile version no matter what size the browser window was. I messed around with it and it seems the site was displaying in an extremely ?zoomed? mode, for some reason. Once I reset it to ?Actual Size? it looked right - hopefully just a one-time glitch at my end.

To the rest of the group - looking at the Links page it occurred to me there are a couple of other recent mainstream media pieces it might be good to include, that I was involved with:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06tvgp1 <http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06tvgp1>

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ear-splitting-princess-of-pop-is-louder-than-acdc-jc8hkhx92dj <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ear-splitting-princess-of-pop-is-louder-than-acdc-jc8hkhx92dj>

Unfortunately the one from The Times is behind a paywall, but I?ve attached a scan of the paper copy so you guys can see what?s in it.

I?ve forgotten where we?re up to with Eelco?s paper - are we going to include that on the links page, too ? Or on the ?Papers? page ?

Ian









> On 23 Mar 2018, at 09:34, Robin Reumers <robinreumers at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Ian,
> 
> I just checked the template and the mobile version is shown when your screen is less than 990 pixels wide. So normally when you drag the screen wider, it should show the normal version.
> @Bob: I also fixed the paper on Safari.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Robin
> 
>> On 23 Mar 2018, at 01:01, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk <mailto:ian at mastering-media.co.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Great stuff ! 
>> 
>> I?m seeing the mobile-optimised version when I look at it in Safari on my Mac though. (But not Chrome). I?ve emptied the cache - is anyone else seeing this ?
>> 
>> Ian
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 22 Mar 2018, at 23:05, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com <mailto:eelco at grimmaudio.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Robin,
>>> 
>>>> The website is live: http://music-loudness.com <http://music-loudness.com/>
>>>> I also updated the paper graphic.
>>> 
>>> Wow! Thank you so much Robin! And everyone else who contributed to this website... It looks very professional. 
>>> 
>>> I guess it?s now time to reach out to your Google contacts, Kevin?
>>> 
>>> All the best,
>>> Eelco
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MLA mailing list
>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

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From bobkatz at digido.com  Fri Mar 23 15:51:12 2018
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:51:12 -0400
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <B8583A5B-7A50-45E1-888B-AC4DCF867828@gmail.com>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
	<E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>
	<08E2FC7F-1F13-43BB-AF5D-5A3F05E91163@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q2iUaHOHbvvms6Vgnjy2M2b6FCKxbm-6zSc=fv3-TGGiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<B8583A5B-7A50-45E1-888B-AC4DCF867828@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <75aa9f2b-ecd2-0e4b-bdc3-b524e0d62d61@digido.com>

Dear Robin: I put a link to it up on Facebook. It comes up as "Music 
Loudness......? "just another Wordpress site". So there's some generic 
data in there you should take out, please.



Bob



On 3/22/18 3:14 PM, Robin Reumers wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> The website is live: http://music-loudness.com
> I also updated the paper graphic.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Robin
>
>> On 19 Mar 2018, at 00:44, Kevin Gross <kevin.gross at avanw.com 
>> <mailto:kevin.gross at avanw.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Robin,
>>
>> Things are still a bit weird for me accessing the paper but with 
>> recent changes (I assume) I was able to finally see it.
>>
>> So, we have satisfied all the needed edits to go live so we can go live.
>>
>> I hope we can keep the work going here. The most important thing 
>> still to be done is adding access to Eelco's Tidal paper. I will try 
>> to make that happen now that Robin has granted us greater editing 
>> privilege.
>>
>> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 3:14 PM, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com 
>> <mailto:eelco at grimmaudio.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi Robin,
>>
>>     The paper link looks more like a logo now, so people may miss it.
>>     Do you have an idea how to make it look more like a link to a paper?
>>
>>     Thanks.
>>
>>     Cheers,
>>     Eelco
>>
>>>     Hi Kevin,
>>>
>>>     Apologies for the delay, this time on my side (just finished a
>>>     big project). I changed the logo for the paper, and I don?t see
>>>     any issues with accessing the papers. Tried it on many browsers.
>>>     What are you seeing when you browse this page?:
>>>     http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/papers/
>>>     <http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/papers/>
>>>
>>>     I also made the MLA account a full administrator, so you should
>>>     see everything. The security is up and running. I did some
>>>     stress testing and it seems to be fine. On top of this, we have
>>>     continuous backups going.
>>>
>>>     Please let me know what else you would like me to do before
>>>     going live?
>>>
>>>     Best wishes,
>>>
>>>     Robin
>>>
>>>
>>>>     On 07 Mar 2018, at 16:30, Kevin Gross <kevin.gross at avanw.com
>>>>     <mailto:kevin.gross at avanw.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Some of my requests to Robin I thought needed to happen before
>>>>     we go live and some can wait. I can sort them into nice vs.
>>>>     needed but I'm a little concerned about waiting because there
>>>>     doesn't appear to be a lot of bandwidth in the group to work on
>>>>     this so I'd have to assume we'd be waiting a while.
>>>>
>>>>     In the department of things that need to be fixed, we can't
>>>>     have the Tidal logo on the link to our paper and we want to add
>>>>     a link to Eelco's paper. We definitely need to fix access to
>>>>     the papers. It is working for Eelco. It is not working for me.
>>>>     Can we get others to visit the page
>>>>     (http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/projects/loudnessnormalization/
>>>>     <http://music-loudness.eu-central-1.elasticbeanstalk.com/projects/loudnessnormalization/>)
>>>>     and report what they're seeing.
>>>>
>>>>     Ian, thanks for fixing text layout on the home/about page. I
>>>>     should have tried harder there. There are layout things any of
>>>>     us can do and there are others which only Robin can do.
>>>>
>>>>     Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>>>>
>>>>     On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 4:04 AM, Ian Shepherd
>>>>     <ian at mastering-media.co.uk <mailto:ian at mastering-media.co.uk>>
>>>>     wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         Hi Kevin,
>>>>
>>>>         I agree with Eelco, this is fine for now and we should make
>>>>         it live. I?ve made the text on the Home page left-justified
>>>>         for now so you can all see how it looks - personally I
>>>>         prefer it.
>>>>
>>>>         I was going to change the ?link colour? to make hyperlinks
>>>>         stand out more, but I don?t seem to have access to the
>>>>         Appearance controls, presumably because our account is
>>>>         Editor only, not Admin ? Robin, please can you adjust this ?
>>>>
>>>>         And also, do you have any security plugins installed yet ?
>>>>         As a minimum I think we need the free versions of WordFence
>>>>         and iThemes Security, or similar.
>>>>
>>>>         Finally the title currently shows up as the default ?Music
>>>>         Loudness Alliance - Just another Wordpress site?, we need
>>>>         to correct that.
>>>>
>>>>         Overall looking great !
>>>>
>>>>         Ian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         PS. One trivial question - is it overkill to have the logo
>>>>         in the footer as well as the header, when the pages have so
>>>>         little content ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>         On 6 Mar 2018, at 22:52, Grimm | Eelco
>>>>>         <eelco at grimmaudio.com <mailto:eelco at grimmaudio.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>         Hi Kevin,
>>>>>
>>>>>         It?s a madhouse here, sorry for my radio silence.
>>>>>
>>>>>>         Thanks for getting the links that I was able to recover
>>>>>>         put up on the Links page. We haven't heard from any other
>>>>>>         members about the ones I was not able to recover so we'll
>>>>>>         just have to go with what we have there.
>>>>>
>>>>>         The links that are there seem fine to me. We can always
>>>>>         add more later on, let?s not wait with releasing the
>>>>>         current version.
>>>>>
>>>>>>         I do have the correct text and links on the Home page
>>>>>>         now. If anyone sees any problems or potential
>>>>>>         improvements there, let me know. I had to move the
>>>>>>         content out of the "Left Column" content area so I could
>>>>>>         add the hyperlinks (perhaps I can type HTML code in the
>>>>>>         Left Column?text box but that doesn't seem right). This
>>>>>>         puts the content in the middle of the page which is fine.
>>>>>>         All the text is centered which is not so pretty.
>>>>>
>>>>>         I?m actually fine with it. And I _love_ the logo!
>>>>>
>>>>>>         Let's go for left justified or something. Also the
>>>>>>         styling on the links is too subtle - they show up as
>>>>>>         underlined only when you hover the mouse over them. Let's
>>>>>>         have something a bit more obvious to indicate these are
>>>>>>         clickable.
>>>>>
>>>>>         I agree. What about the simple solution: only make the
>>>>>         ?here? words clickable and underline it always. And the
>>>>>         title of our paper should be in Italic.
>>>>>
>>>>>>         The links on the Links page and paper on the Papers are
>>>>>>         in the "Left Column" content area. We'll need to find a
>>>>>>         way to make layout consistent with the Home page.
>>>>>
>>>>>         Yes. I?d say: just choose the same background color as the
>>>>>         background of the ?Papers? text. That way it looks more
>>>>>         like the home page. In the Contact us page you may also
>>>>>         choose that color.
>>>>>
>>>>>>         I get an error when I try to open the Loudness
>>>>>>         Normalization paper on the Papers page.
>>>>>
>>>>>         It works for me.
>>>>>
>>>>>>         In addition to getting this working, we want to have a
>>>>>>         direct PDF download link.
>>>>>
>>>>>         Perhaps. It works for me like it is already.
>>>>>
>>>>>>         The Loudness Normalization paper?has a tidal logo. That
>>>>>>         is not appropriate for this paper. If we want a graphic
>>>>>>         associated with this paper, maybe use this
>>>>>
>>>>>         Why not the MLA logo? Perhaps with a certain background color.
>>>>>
>>>>>>         We do want to include a link to Eelco's paper
>>>>>>         (https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM
>>>>>>         <https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM>)
>>>>>>         on the Papers page
>>>>>
>>>>>         Yes, with another background color maybe, in the right
>>>>>         column.
>>>>>
>>>>>>         We have decided not to have an About Us page; all that
>>>>>>         information is on the Home page. You have removed the
>>>>>>         About Us link from navigation at the top of the pages. We
>>>>>>         still have an About Us navigation at the bottom of the pages.
>>>>>
>>>>>         It?s fine with me: some people search for a ?home? button.
>>>>>         Others for an ?about us? page. They will all arrive at the
>>>>>         same page now...
>>>>>
>>>>>         Let?s get this site on air as soon as possible. It is
>>>>>         already much better than what we have now...
>>>>>
>>>>>         Cheers,
>>>>>         Eelco
>>>>>
>>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>>         MLA mailing list
>>>>>         MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>         http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>>>>>         <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>         MLA mailing list
>>>>         MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>         http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>>>>         <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>     MLA mailing list
>>>>     MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>     http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>>>>     <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     MLA mailing list
>>>     MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>     http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>>>     <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     MLA mailing list
>>     MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>     http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>>     <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio *Digital Domain 
Website <http://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.

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From kevin.gross at avanw.com  Fri Mar 23 20:18:08 2018
From: kevin.gross at avanw.com (Kevin Gross)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 13:18:08 -0600
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <75aa9f2b-ecd2-0e4b-bdc3-b524e0d62d61@digido.com>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
	<E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>
	<08E2FC7F-1F13-43BB-AF5D-5A3F05E91163@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q2iUaHOHbvvms6Vgnjy2M2b6FCKxbm-6zSc=fv3-TGGiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<B8583A5B-7A50-45E1-888B-AC4DCF867828@gmail.com>
	<75aa9f2b-ecd2-0e4b-bdc3-b524e0d62d61@digido.com>
Message-ID: <CALw1_Q2LEGLpxDk7dJKAkgMSMV_HeGZT3McfbHU1QompJu4iMQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have changed this to "Informing and educating the audio community about
loudness normalization", a snippet from our About page.

Kevin Gross - AVA Networks

On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 8:51 AM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:

> Dear Robin: I put a link to it up on Facebook. It comes up as "Music
> Loudness......  "just another Wordpress site". So there's some generic data
> in there you should take out, please.
>
>
>
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From kevin.gross at avanw.com  Fri Mar 23 20:35:13 2018
From: kevin.gross at avanw.com (Kevin Gross)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 13:35:13 -0600
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <9EA4AA14-0625-48C7-9EF9-292EE27DA597@mac.com>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1rC7oad5kUreAEHptYwR0pUBNR7wdBx15DRgc35Wq0OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D703EBA4-CBB9-4CE4-845E-082CC82C4E71@digido.com>
	<5D70F5AE-CAA0-4F9D-AA00-E40BF7782AEE@grimmaudio.com>
	<69A578AA-9F55-40AA-9928-582B8AE9D05F@digido.com>
	<351D5CE0-916B-4358-8855-BF453BBE4B09@digido.com>
	<FCAAC86F-F57D-445F-BCF8-C008F3F75328@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0zTGwwunASWVLn8s=Mg-EpYV-r-SC9ojGNFDC_WTFR6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxex+qa-b2-M49X1niSsE9jW+EYJXEDwrgbWPyXcXQJqFiRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56E22902-E483-494E-859B-97CBBB2F6753@grimmaudio.com>
	<D3E62453-050B-45F5-AA3E-1CDB7A867102@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<A458F312-C9F1-4EC5-97AB-B6AADA6140C3@gmail.com>
	<F647FBBB-FD22-42BA-BF8B-A0A32F31BA21@mac.com>
	<3922a1ce-7fd4-a290-10b6-6dd38d57cbe4@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0B5F6pKhiEBcCFS7995Hw6UKiOz+=os9CfhzaeBPYTbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<b1b5dceb-3ed1-7d3d-4139-0e424a8c95b4@digido.com>
	<89CCD91F-D8EC-41C0-B9BE-227AC5E9697B@gmail.com>
	<d6c69809-9c70-498f-7209-4f1260ff96bf@digido.com>
	<D34A92FC-15E6-4F69-AC90-AC7C559EB47C@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3p0y88NDjb9ZqZEyZYPjmDkWGr9nQaVXmhe57UZPuF-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
	<E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>
	<08E2FC7F-1F13-43BB-AF5D-5A3F05E91163@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q2iUaHOHbvvms6Vgnjy2M2b6FCKxbm-6zSc=fv3-TGGiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<B8583A5B-7A50-45E1-888B-AC4DCF867828@gmail.com>
	<9D204426-BF61-44B6-A0AC-933EF37EF75F@grimmaudio.com>
	<5F6BCE1C-AD41-40C0-8D63-F979BC627AB4@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<9EA4AA14-0625-48C7-9EF9-292EE27DA597@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CALw1_Q0B51D8RifPjsO3nxkmfNKVLrZVGgH8CiLUX=WKbZF5dw@mail.gmail.com>

I've had this problem all along and continue to have it. Robin has not been
able to reproduce this problem and, until your report here, no one else was
having the problem.

I have attempted to work around this by adding direct hypertext links to
the paper. I have also added a link to Eelco's paper while I was added.

There are three deficiencies with this workaround that I need help from
Robin or someone else smarter with Wordpress than I:

   1. Text on the page is centered. I had this problem on the About page
   and I beleive Ian was able to fix it.
   2. We still have the non-working thumbnail of the paper. I don't know
   where this comes from or how to edit it.
   3. Links are still subtly styled, only gaining an underline when you
   mouse over them,

Kevin Gross - AVA Networks

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Robert Ludwig <gatewaybob at mac.com> wrote:

> I tried to look at Eelco?s paper but it would not open.
> Safari on my MacBook Pro.
>
> Bob L.
>
>
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From kevin.gross at avanw.com  Fri Mar 23 20:38:28 2018
From: kevin.gross at avanw.com (Kevin Gross)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 13:38:28 -0600
Subject: [MLA] MLA web site
In-Reply-To: <CALw1_Q0B51D8RifPjsO3nxkmfNKVLrZVGgH8CiLUX=WKbZF5dw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALw1_Q16Enag8zCpiA8W=m8=ju5ecoLj=JEpiHC6zngs+u_mfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1rC7oad5kUreAEHptYwR0pUBNR7wdBx15DRgc35Wq0OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D703EBA4-CBB9-4CE4-845E-082CC82C4E71@digido.com>
	<5D70F5AE-CAA0-4F9D-AA00-E40BF7782AEE@grimmaudio.com>
	<69A578AA-9F55-40AA-9928-582B8AE9D05F@digido.com>
	<351D5CE0-916B-4358-8855-BF453BBE4B09@digido.com>
	<FCAAC86F-F57D-445F-BCF8-C008F3F75328@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0zTGwwunASWVLn8s=Mg-EpYV-r-SC9ojGNFDC_WTFR6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxex+qa-b2-M49X1niSsE9jW+EYJXEDwrgbWPyXcXQJqFiRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<56E22902-E483-494E-859B-97CBBB2F6753@grimmaudio.com>
	<D3E62453-050B-45F5-AA3E-1CDB7A867102@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<A458F312-C9F1-4EC5-97AB-B6AADA6140C3@gmail.com>
	<F647FBBB-FD22-42BA-BF8B-A0A32F31BA21@mac.com>
	<3922a1ce-7fd4-a290-10b6-6dd38d57cbe4@digido.com>
	<CALw1_Q0B5F6pKhiEBcCFS7995Hw6UKiOz+=os9CfhzaeBPYTbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<b1b5dceb-3ed1-7d3d-4139-0e424a8c95b4@digido.com>
	<89CCD91F-D8EC-41C0-B9BE-227AC5E9697B@gmail.com>
	<d6c69809-9c70-498f-7209-4f1260ff96bf@digido.com>
	<D34A92FC-15E6-4F69-AC90-AC7C559EB47C@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q3p0y88NDjb9ZqZEyZYPjmDkWGr9nQaVXmhe57UZPuF-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9D86FA56-791D-4D9F-A929-C85D64F93D6E@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yJfquYFFvsj-YT8KDAiKZU2myg3iAJbu6UQ6uQZynMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q0Uom6f+wibRexJCE0Cby+4O+0pdL82B-rdMU=eTOqPXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC14E202-CB59-4C31-8308-D5E43FBC15A0@gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q3yeyzZvk9YSrdUTKcDUnxWuF07sekzSxS5TwS7bO_pAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMvxexJCYpS9iHa7yei3976uY8x0EU_d41gd55KrsNfMXZh0dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q32W_v8tNgKwLWdiVH1fFeHh7sH6dYWq0evyhoyqN0goA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALw1_Q1CD+s7N8JDdYLxMPqS5+H_dxWt8XsXO+aeBhrS+rdtFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4029C0E4-1298-44F8-91C0-BB8EAF3171E4@grimmaudio.com>
	<E4F59A65-A83E-4354-A423-AE7C909EC8AE@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<CALw1_Q1gNpnpCeRWDmbZu+YKxEhBQAqwFU_2eq+YLC6EEjOqSg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67DAB34A-4D0A-42DD-B761-8204C03F797E@gmail.com>
	<08E2FC7F-1F13-43BB-AF5D-5A3F05E91163@grimmaudio.com>
	<CALw1_Q2iUaHOHbvvms6Vgnjy2M2b6FCKxbm-6zSc=fv3-TGGiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<B8583A5B-7A50-45E1-888B-AC4DCF867828@gmail.com>
	<9D204426-BF61-44B6-A0AC-933EF37EF75F@grimmaudio.com>
	<5F6BCE1C-AD41-40C0-8D63-F979BC627AB4@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<9EA4AA14-0625-48C7-9EF9-292EE27DA597@mac.com>
	<CALw1_Q0B51D8RifPjsO3nxkmfNKVLrZVGgH8CiLUX=WKbZF5dw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALw1_Q2DZXAopqKEMc3HejOa_oEhbRJYBbf+825AxiXoPYwByw@mail.gmail.com>

Forgot about a 4th deficiancy: The version of our original whitepaper I've
linked to is on the wayback machine as I can't find the paper at the URL it
claims to have been uploaded to -
http://music-loudness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Music-Loudness-Alliance-White-Paper-v1.pdf

Kevin Gross - AVA Networks

On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 1:35 PM, Kevin Gross <kevin.gross at avanw.com> wrote:

> I've had this problem all along and continue to have it. Robin has not
> been able to reproduce this problem and, until your report here, no one
> else was having the problem.
>
> I have attempted to work around this by adding direct hypertext links to
> the paper. I have also added a link to Eelco's paper while I was added.
>
> There are three deficiencies with this workaround that I need help from
> Robin or someone else smarter with Wordpress than I:
>
>    1. Text on the page is centered. I had this problem on the About page
>    and I beleive Ian was able to fix it.
>    2. We still have the non-working thumbnail of the paper. I don't know
>    where this comes from or how to edit it.
>    3. Links are still subtly styled, only gaining an underline when you
>    mouse over them,
>
> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Robert Ludwig <gatewaybob at mac.com> wrote:
>
>> I tried to look at Eelco?s paper but it would not open.
>> Safari on my MacBook Pro.
>>
>> Bob L.
>>
>>
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From bobkatz at digido.com  Mon Mar 26 18:43:35 2018
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 12:43:35 -0400
Subject: [MLA] Have you been following
In-Reply-To: <81AAFE75-E21A-44E4-958A-FC3F5E39C470@leapwingaudio.com>
References: <606F37FC-23FD-441E-91CD-EEE510AA9E2D@digido.com>
	<81AAFE75-E21A-44E4-958A-FC3F5E39C470@leapwingaudio.com>
Message-ID: <02acad85-b36a-e516-8ffc-67e37fb0b22c@digido.com>

Great. It comes up great.

Guys... Robin fixed the paper link. And it can be downloaded from our 
site as well.



Bob



On 3/26/18 10:14 AM, Robin Reumers wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> Yes I believe to have fixed it this morning. Could you check if it works on your side?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Robin
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 26, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>>
>> ...the discussion about the link to the paper and what Kevin did?
>>
>> My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more to see here.
>> ----------------------------------------------------

-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio *Digital Domain 
Website <http://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.

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From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Mon Mar 26 19:56:16 2018
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 18:56:16 +0100
Subject: [MLA] Have you been following
In-Reply-To: <02acad85-b36a-e516-8ffc-67e37fb0b22c@digido.com>
References: <606F37FC-23FD-441E-91CD-EEE510AA9E2D@digido.com>
	<81AAFE75-E21A-44E4-958A-FC3F5E39C470@leapwingaudio.com>
	<02acad85-b36a-e516-8ffc-67e37fb0b22c@digido.com>
Message-ID: <B3B88D1E-924F-4046-87E1-A620C7F01973@mastering-media.co.uk>


Great stuff !

Robin, would it also be possible to add an og:image tag to the site as well, to make our logo come up by default on Facebook when/if people share it, please ?

Ian




> On 26 Mar 2018, at 17:43, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
> 
> Great. It comes up great. 
> Guys... Robin fixed the paper link. And it can be downloaded from our site as well.
> 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/26/18 10:14 AM, Robin Reumers wrote:
>> Hi Bob,
>> 
>> Yes I believe to have fixed it this morning. Could you check if it works on your side?
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Robin
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 26, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> <mailto:bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ...the discussion about the link to the paper and what Kevin did? 
>>> 
>>> My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more to see here. 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> -- 
> 
> If you want good sound on your album, come to
> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
> Author: Mastering Audio              
> Digital Domain Website <http://www.digido.com/>
> 
> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

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From robinreumers at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 23:04:12 2018
From: robinreumers at gmail.com (Robin Reumers)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 23:04:12 +0200
Subject: [MLA] Have you been following
In-Reply-To: <B3B88D1E-924F-4046-87E1-A620C7F01973@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <606F37FC-23FD-441E-91CD-EEE510AA9E2D@digido.com>
	<81AAFE75-E21A-44E4-958A-FC3F5E39C470@leapwingaudio.com>
	<02acad85-b36a-e516-8ffc-67e37fb0b22c@digido.com>
	<B3B88D1E-924F-4046-87E1-A620C7F01973@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6F26ACFB-B692-48DA-967A-F62418614990@gmail.com>

Hi Ian,

Good point. I?ll install Yoast SEO tomorrow morning so we can tweak this.

Best wishes,

Robin

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 26, 2018, at 7:56 PM, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> Great stuff !
> 
> Robin, would it also be possible to add an og:image tag to the site as well, to make our logo come up by default on Facebook when/if people share it, please ?
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 26 Mar 2018, at 17:43, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Great. It comes up great. 
>> Guys... Robin fixed the paper link. And it can be downloaded from our site as well.
>> 
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3/26/18 10:14 AM, Robin Reumers wrote:
>>> Hi Bob,
>>> 
>>> Yes I believe to have fixed it this morning. Could you check if it works on your side?
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Robin
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 26, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ...the discussion about the link to the paper and what Kevin did? 
>>>> 
>>>> My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more to see here. 
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> If you want good sound on your album, come to
>> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
>> Author: Mastering Audio              
>> Digital Domain Website
>> 
>> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
>> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
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From robinreumers at gmail.com  Tue Mar 27 11:51:47 2018
From: robinreumers at gmail.com (Robin Reumers)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2018 11:51:47 +0200
Subject: [MLA] Have you been following
In-Reply-To: <B3B88D1E-924F-4046-87E1-A620C7F01973@mastering-media.co.uk>
References: <606F37FC-23FD-441E-91CD-EEE510AA9E2D@digido.com>
	<81AAFE75-E21A-44E4-958A-FC3F5E39C470@leapwingaudio.com>
	<02acad85-b36a-e516-8ffc-67e37fb0b22c@digido.com>
	<B3B88D1E-924F-4046-87E1-A620C7F01973@mastering-media.co.uk>
Message-ID: <102E10D2-6B54-4B80-BB64-71CC74AAE975@gmail.com>

Hi Ian,

i just added Yoast SEO and created a new image for sharing on social media. I also let FB scrape the page again so it should look ok now when you share it.

Best wishes,

Robin

> On 26 Mar 2018, at 19:56, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> Great stuff !
> 
> Robin, would it also be possible to add an og:image tag to the site as well, to make our logo come up by default on Facebook when/if people share it, please ?
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 26 Mar 2018, at 17:43, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com <mailto:bobkatz at digido.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Great. It comes up great. 
>> Guys... Robin fixed the paper link. And it can be downloaded from our site as well.
>> 
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 3/26/18 10:14 AM, Robin Reumers wrote:
>>> Hi Bob,
>>> 
>>> Yes I believe to have fixed it this morning. Could you check if it works on your side?
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Robin
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 26, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> <mailto:bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ...the discussion about the link to the paper and what Kevin did? 
>>>> 
>>>> My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more to see here. 
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> If you want good sound on your album, come to
>> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
>> Author: Mastering Audio              
>> Digital Domain Website <http://www.digido.com/>
>> 
>> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
>> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl

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From bobkatz at digido.com  Wed Mar 28 16:12:54 2018
From: bobkatz at digido.com (Bob Katz)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 10:12:54 -0400
Subject: [MLA] Apple to stop selling music?
In-Reply-To: <02acad85-b36a-e516-8ffc-67e37fb0b22c@digido.com>
References: <606F37FC-23FD-441E-91CD-EEE510AA9E2D@digido.com>
	<81AAFE75-E21A-44E4-958A-FC3F5E39C470@leapwingaudio.com>
	<02acad85-b36a-e516-8ffc-67e37fb0b22c@digido.com>
Message-ID: <e66816c6-d281-7c29-845c-d41a57e3d94e@digido.com>

This is not the first time I've heard this rumor, and this is just one 
of the latest entries:


https://www.dailydot.com/upstream/apple-jimmy-iovine-itunes-downloads/



By the way, I spoke to David Chesky, and he said that they plan to 
"always" continue HD Tracks regardless of what happens in streaming.


Bob

-- 

If you want good sound on your album, come to Bob Katz 407-831-0233 
DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO Author: *Mastering Audio *Digital Domain 
Website <http://www.digido.com/> No trees were killed in the sending of 
this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly 
inconvenienced.

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From ian at mastering-media.co.uk  Sat Mar 31 12:13:46 2018
From: ian at mastering-media.co.uk (Ian Shepherd)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 11:13:46 +0100
Subject: [MLA] Have you been following
In-Reply-To: <102E10D2-6B54-4B80-BB64-71CC74AAE975@gmail.com>
References: <606F37FC-23FD-441E-91CD-EEE510AA9E2D@digido.com>
	<81AAFE75-E21A-44E4-958A-FC3F5E39C470@leapwingaudio.com>
	<02acad85-b36a-e516-8ffc-67e37fb0b22c@digido.com>
	<B3B88D1E-924F-4046-87E1-A620C7F01973@mastering-media.co.uk>
	<102E10D2-6B54-4B80-BB64-71CC74AAE975@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FB83DFAA-4CB0-4902-90B8-9136D82CD29C@mastering-media.co.uk>


Hi Robin,

Thanks for that - the logo has a transparent background which makes it look a little washed-out when it?s posted, so I?ll make a new image with the green background and point Yoast at it that instead when I get a minute 

Cheers,

Ian


> On 27 Mar 2018, at 10:51, Robin Reumers <robinreumers at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Ian,
> 
> i just added Yoast SEO and created a new image for sharing on social media. I also let FB scrape the page again so it should look ok now when you share it.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Robin
> 
>> On 26 Mar 2018, at 19:56, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Great stuff !
>> 
>> Robin, would it also be possible to add an og:image tag to the site as well, to make our logo come up by default on Facebook when/if people share it, please ?
>> 
>> Ian
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 26 Mar 2018, at 17:43, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Great. It comes up great. 
>>> Guys... Robin fixed the paper link. And it can be downloaded from our site as well.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 3/26/18 10:14 AM, Robin Reumers wrote:
>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>> 
>>>> Yes I believe to have fixed it this morning. Could you check if it works on your side?
>>>> 
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>> 
>>>> Robin
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 26, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ...the discussion about the link to the paper and what Kevin did? 
>>>>> 
>>>>> My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more to see here. 
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> If you want good sound on your album, come to
>>> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
>>> Author: Mastering Audio              
>>> Digital Domain Website
>>> 
>>> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
>>> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MLA mailing list
>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
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