[MLA] MLA web site

Kevin Gross kevin.gross at avanw.com
Tue Nov 14 22:01:09 CET 2017 

This Facebook endeavour does not respect the value of our time. I'm taking
a break from this discussion.

Kevin Gross - AVA Networks

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:

> I posted on my FB page.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Kevin's idea
> about depending on backups to deal with security has some merit because
> it's going to be a largely static site.
>
> The thing is if a hack happens then you need the expert to keep it from
> happening again. And that's where it gets costly. Reloading from a backup
> is all well and good but where do you go from there when it gets hacked?
>
> Here's my post:
>
> Any website developers willing to watch over a non-profit audio-related
> educational site for a yearly honorarium?  We might put your name on the
> page if it's helpful.
>
> Kevin Gross, Eelco Grimm, Bob Ludwig, Ian Shepherd, Florian Camerer
>
>
>
> My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more to
> see here.
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> On Nov 14, 2017, at 3:46 PM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>
> I'll ask on Facebook.
>
> Bob
>
> My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more to
> see here.
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> On Nov 14, 2017, at 3:32 PM, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Bob and Kevin,
>
> So the problem is the security. My students cannot offer that (just
> setting the thing up - pretty straightforward work). And no one on this
> list has time for it.
>
> There are two solutions:
> 1. We hire someone to look after security of a Wordpress site on the
> digido domain.
> 2. We rent a site at Weebly - yes they take care of security since that is
> their core business. If we accept some "made with Weebly" banners it is
> free, otherwise I think the €7/month option fits all our needs, which is
> €84/year.
>
> If we can find someone who can take care of security (updates etc) of a
> Wordpress site for €100 / year or less, I'm very fine with the digido
> solution. Otherwise Weebly seems like a nice and cheaper choice. I could
> even live with "made with Weebly" banners btw.
>
> Cheers,
> Eelco
>
>
> On 14 nov. 2017, at 20:44, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>
> The MLA is not paying for dns OR for a site. What part of "Free of charge"
> don't you understand? If you want a prefab, cookie cutter look, go to
> Weebly OR Squarespace and move from zero dollars (subsidized by yours truly
> that I'm paying a helluva lot for MLAs benefit). Any amateur or pro is free
> to build the MLA site here.
>
> Www.digido.com <http://www.digido.com/> is a fabulous, custom site.
> You'll be on the same host. All you have to do is design.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob K
>
> My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more to
> see here.
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> On Nov 14, 2017, at 12:33 PM, Kevin Gross <kevin.gross at avanw.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, I was proposing an amateur build the site. Security would be
> accomplished by a good backup that we can quickly restore from. If no one
> thinks this is a workable idea, I'm happy to move on. Despite potential
> bugaboos in the fine print, my second choice would be something like Weebly
> or Squarespace. My understanding is these are a bit more than a
> Wordpress instance.
>
> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>
>> If you want an amateur to build the site and "secure" it, no skin off my
>> back. There's no reason to pay Weebly or Squarespace because we already
>> have a site and I offer it free to the MLA. , and we're saving money
>> because I'm already paying the fees for the MLA. Just don't come back with
>> your tails between your legs if the site gets hacked or it isn't supported
>> adequately. All we need is design, maintenance and security.
>>
>> Hosting is hosting. Hosting is not security. Read the fine print at
>> Weebly and Squarespace. I'll bet they supply the site and maybe a wordpress
>> instance. But I'll also bet If you go into the site and start playing with
>> it, then you're responsible for its security and maintenance!
>>
>> If the guy we "hire" doesn't know how to set up an empty wordpress
>> instance himself, then he shouldn't be hired. That should be the minimum
>> requirement for technical competence. I'll provide the site, the dns and
>> the subdomain for staging, and any passwords or access codes that he or she
>> needs. I can even make an empty wordpress instance on our domain, but it
>> would not give me confidence to discover I had to do it because the guy we
>> "hire" couldn't do it himself!
>>
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/14/17 11:18 AM, Kevin Gross wrote:
>>
>> Hosting is a problem if hosting with you requires we engage a
>> professional to secure the site. Can you set us up an empty Wordpress
>> instance, have it backed up reliably and give Eelco access so that he can
>> get his student volunteers to populate it for us? If you're not comfortable
>> with this, and I'm not expecting you would be, I'm not sure I would be, we
>> should look at alternatives.
>>
>> Weebly does offer pro website hosting for $12/mo. Squarespace is $18/mo.
>> Presumably security and backup is taken care of for you on these services.
>> I think we should be able to scrape together the $200/yr required to
>> support this.
>>
>> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 8:41 AM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Kevin. The site is not the problem! I continue to offer it to the group
>>> for free. The DNS is already pointing. All those aspects have been taken
>>> care of by me.
>>>
>>> Once again: The issue is design, security and maintenance. Anyone can
>>> design a wordpress site, but not everyone can offer security, guaranteed
>>> maintenance and upkeep. It has to be a package.... you can't have an
>>> amateur design it followed by a pro to maintain it.
>>>
>>> So if we find someone who knows how to do it, I'll guide him or her
>>> through the back end and even to the creation of a temporary subdomain for
>>> staging. All that is not a problem. I have that expertise and it's already
>>> being done for our site. I could set up a wordpress instance as well but
>>> like everyone on this list, I am an amateur. So we need design, maintenance
>>> and security. A package. Or we'll be hacked soon as you're born, just like
>>> every other amateur who sets up a wordpress site.
>>> Let's not be naive: We need someone with expertise to make it secure and
>>> to maintain it, keep all the mains and plugins up to date. Not a month goes
>>> by without one of my plugins or wordpress needing update. In many cases
>>> security issues come up and have to be responded to rapidly. That is not
>>> something you want someone casual to do. I'm very happy I have a pro
>>> maintaining those aspects of my site for me, I wear too many hats and so
>>> does everyone else on this list.
>>>
>>> I know how to set up wordpress backups, that's not an issue. I am
>>> already performing offsite backups using ftp to my local redundant server
>>> and will ensure that our new wordpress site is adequately backed up.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/14/17 9:31 AM, Kevin Gross wrote:
>>>
>>> Can we agree that the first step here is to get an empty Wordpress
>>> instance set up somewhere and establish a security and maintenance plan for
>>> it?
>>>
>>> I have room to do this for no additional cost at Hostmonster. I am no
>>> Wordpress expert but could set up a new empty instance based on the
>>> web-based systems provided by Hostmonster. I am not watching things like a
>>> hawk so it could get toasted again. But Hostmonster does regular automatic
>>> backups for each account so it could be restored or rebuilt elsewhere from
>>> backups.
>>>
>>> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:01 AM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Eelco. Ultimately a professional is the best solution but my guy
>>>> is too expensive for us I think. I'm paying around $500 a year for his
>>>> maintenance and a few thousand for the initial design.
>>>>
>>>> My site runs on a highly-customized WordPress. We do have Wordfence
>>>> running but I'm not a security expert. I do know there was more to our
>>>> security, including capcha, and on my host I am running extra security. I
>>>> have full access to the back-end and I have space for backup and am willing
>>>> with our group to contribute to the cost of some necessary plugins,
>>>> including updraft pro and maybe a few others.
>>>>
>>>> I advise if you/we can find a very astute student volunteer who likes
>>>> audio and our goals, who is not into cookie cutter templates, who
>>>> understands PHP and has experience with security. Those would be the
>>>> economical ingredients. If he/she will keep the WordPress up and up to date
>>>> as a volunteer then we ask a group can volunteer to maintain the articles.
>>>> That's all I ask.
>>>>
>>>> I pay for the site and I host the domain. I pay for the domain. I'm
>>>> more than happy to contribute to articles, but I have to draw the line
>>>> before site design, maintenance and security. For that we must choose a pro
>>>> or a pro equivalent, wisely and economically.
>>>>
>>>> Ian, I devised the original site in Joomla and then we got hacked
>>>> because I was not maintaining the joomla. I'm through with Joomla. I would
>>>> not advise using the way back machine or even my stored backup (if I could
>>>> find it) because more people are into WordPress these days and Joomla or
>>>> Drupal are long in the tooth. As Eelco points out, a good looking site in
>>>> WordPress can be put up in no time. We just want a pro or a competent geek
>>>> student to put it up, make it secure and keep it secure.
>>>>
>>>> Are you watching over the back end of your site like a hawk, Ian?
>>>> Personally I feel quite a lot of peace of mind having my pro watch over my
>>>> site for a measly $500 a year. But I think that's a bit too much for
>>>> Music-Loudness to sustain, don't you?  Plus, my pro would not maintain a
>>>> site he didn't design, which seems reasonable.
>>>>
>>>> Reminds me of the old rate sheet:
>>>>
>>>> $25 an hour if I do it
>>>> $50 an hour if you watch
>>>> $100 if I do it and you help
>>>> $200 if you do it and I watch.
>>>>
>>>> Does this help?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>> My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more
>>>> to see here.
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 13, 2017, at 7:37 PM, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>
>>>> All my sites (5 or 6) are running on Wordpress. I got hacked several
>>>> years ago so installed the free versions of Wordfence and iThemes Security
>>>> and have been secure ever since. Maybe Eelco’s students would keep an eye
>>>> on things for us ?
>>>>
>>>> Having said that, can we not pull the source code of the original site
>>>> from the Wayback Machine and re-install it ?
>>>>
>>>> Ian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 13 Nov 2017, at 23:27, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>
>>>> What do you suggest as solution? Is your current website based upon
>>>> Wordpress or some other CMS? We could maybe ask your professional to
>>>> maintain the MLA pages too - I'm willing to contribute to that.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Eelco
>>>>
>>>> Guys. We have a domain, I've got control of it and I've been paying for
>>>> the domain renewals ever since we put it up  However, I cannot spend the
>>>> time to update it or spiff it up. If anyone would like to do the
>>>> maintenance or design on it, just let me know and I'll send you all the
>>>> particulars.
>>>>
>>>> The thing about Wordpress is it needs constant maintenance and the
>>>> number of hackers and attacks have increased tremendously. All the bad guys
>>>> want to take down vulnerable worpress sites. It takes more than just a
>>>> website, it takes knowledge and experience. Anyone can write a wordpress
>>>> site, but keeping it up is another story.  You need lots of good
>>>> protections, a foolproof .htaccess file, etc.
>>>>
>>>> That's why I have a professional maintaining my site. Someone who
>>>> spends every day pruning all the sites under his control. There was a time
>>>> when I would maintain a site myself, but I realize that I wear too many
>>>> hats already and that I cannot possibly beat his knowledge and expertise.
>>>> To date, not one of his sites has ever been hacked.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>> On 11/11/17 4:48 PM, Grimm | Eelco wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What can se do to get the MLA site back in a presentable state? I am in
>>>> the process of making contacts at tech companies (Amazon, Google) to get
>>>> loudness normalization implemented in streaming services and am embarrassed
>>>> to refer my contacts to our website - music-loudness.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Students of mine have build this site in just a day with a Wordpress
>>>> template: http://tripleacompany.nl (it is for a 'virtual company' that
>>>> they are running as a group proejct in their graduate year).
>>>>
>>>> I could ask if they are willing to make something like this for us. But
>>>> we need a domain.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Eelco
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> MLA mailing listMLA at grimmaudio.nlhttp://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you want good sound on your album, come to
>>>> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 <%28407%29%20831-0233> DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
>>>> Author: *Mastering Audio              *Digital Domain Website <http://www.digido.com/>
>>>>
>>>> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
>>>> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MLA mailing listMLA at grimmaudio.nlhttp://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> If you want good sound on your album, come to
>>> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 <%28407%29%20831-0233> DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
>>> Author: *Mastering Audio              *Digital Domain Website <http://www.digido.com/>
>>>
>>> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
>>> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MLA mailing list
>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> If you want good sound on your album, come to
>> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 <(407)%20831-0233> DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
>> Author: *Mastering Audio              *Digital Domain Website <http://www.digido.com/>
>>
>> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
>> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>>
>>
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