[MLA] Touch base with Buddy...

[Kevin Gross]

I agree with Ian, I think Eelco's summary paper basically covers it.

I think the MLA can be most effective if we remains a source of expert
knowledge and not so much an advocacy group.

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:

> I hope to find time to read Eelco's summary but don't let me hold anything
> up.
>
> If that's the case, then we don't need a touch base letter.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> On 5/27/17 11:29 AM, Ian Shepherd wrote:
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> Having just read Eelco's summary, I think the majority of the points
> you've outlined in your mail are already covered very well.
>
> Rather than distract from the momentum of Eelco's conversation with Buddy
> so far, perhaps better for him to simply say he has shown the MLA his
> summary and that we fully endorse it ? Assuming that's the case, of course
> :-)
>
> Ian
>
>
>
>
> On 26 May 2017, at 17:49, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com> wrote:
>
> Congratulations in advance, Eelco! I have yet to read your last revision.
>
> I have Buddy's ear and he and I have conversed several times in the past
> year, but all about MFIT stuff and not about normalization.
>
> I'd like us to touch base with Buddy. Should we compose a group email
> summarizing our thoughts and send it to Buddy?
>
> Let's summarize our points:
>
> a) loudness normalization on by default. Ideally BS.1770.
>
> b) album norm on all the time.
>
> c) No upward normalization unless the peak level would not clip.
>
> d) No peak limiting
>
> e) Point out that singles (which have no album) will automatically sound
> as loud as the loudest song in any album even if the single is a ballad or
> soft song. Well, this behaves no worse than track normalization ever did. I
> guess it will work itself out. The big discrepancies will be between
> singles that are soft songs against that same song in the album. But it's
> no worse than the old days when ballads were often released as singles,
> peak normalized, louder than how they appeared on the album.
>
> f) If they choose a higher target, like -14 LUFS, it works out fine and
> does not cause a loudness race:
>
> --- ONLY if album normalization is on all the time and
>
> ---ONLY if album normalization is based on the loudest track in the album
> and
>
> ---ONLY if there is no upward normalization beyond the clipping point.
>
> g) Album norm would require a new field in the metadata that Apple is
> apparently not using. One which calculates the loudest song in the album.
> Personally I think the field should contain the absolute LUFS of the
> loudest song. That allows playback systems to easily update to new targets.
>
> h) Currently itunes only turns on album norm in a playlist. It also only
> turns it on with contiguous tracks.... My studies and your study have shown
> that contiguous is not necessary to enjoy the benefits of album norm.
>
> iTunes currently keeps on calculating a new "average" and recalculates the
> album normalization in a playlist depending on how many tracks from the
> album it discovers. It's actually far more complicated and fraught with
> bugs than the simple "album norm all the time" principle so the apple
> algorithms will become simpler, not complicated.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Wed, 2017-05-24 at 08:09 +0200, Grimm | Eelco wrote:
>
> Hi Thomas,
>
>
>
> Well done if Apple has been convinced by your study to turn on loudness normalization by default. Still, I encourage you to submit it for JAES or a conference so the scientific scrutinization process can get started, and we can get out of this stalled state.
>
>
>
> Yes I will. It is planned for the New York conference. I will definitely keep you all involved in the writing of that paper.
>
> Cheers,
> Eelco
>
>
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>
> --
>
>
> If you want good sound on your album, come to
> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 <(407)%20831-0233> DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
> Author: *Mastering Audio              *Digital Domain Website <http://www.digido.com/>
>
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>
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