[MLA] MLA web site

Robin Reumers robinreumers at gmail.com
Sat Dec 16 18:14:12 CET 2017 

Hi all,

My student made a design/brand PDF for the website, even with a logo (based on Bob’s eagle). The logo is the eagle moving away (up) from the loud signal:

It also includes the header and footer for the website. He did make a suggestion and I’m not sure if you have all thought of this already, but it could be interesting to have a mailing list for people wanting to stay up to date about any news. 
We can also leave that part out of course, totally up to you.

Please have a look at the PDF. If you agree with the design, we will start building the wordpress theme next weekend (and I’ll start setting up the server in the background).

Hope you all have a great weekend!

Robin

> On 14 Dec 2017, at 23:56, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> I agree, something like this will work fine. Thanks Robin !
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
>> On 14 Dec 2017, at 22:53, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com <mailto:eelco at grimmaudio.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Robin,
>> 
>> Your proposal seems simple and therefore great to me. It will cover all our needs. Thanks a lot for your help!
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Eelco
>> 
>>> Apologies for the delay in responding, it has been hectic here. I've made a mockup (see attached) of the site. It would have:
>>> - Home which has an intro (could be the text from the old website) and below it some news items, for example in this case the Tidal announcement. Every time there is something worth mentioning, it can be updated.
>>> - About Us: explains what the group is about (objectives) and maybe a bit about all of you. Up to you of course.
>>> - Papers: A list of all papers, when clicked it will open a PDF reader but also next to it a button to download the PDF if they want to read it in their own viewer
>>> - Links: the old weblinks from the old website
>>> - Contact us page: a form with CAPTCHA to be emailed to someone (could be Florian if you'd like). This way, the email address will never be visible.
>>> 
>>> Please let me know if you have any remarks or comments and we'll move onto the design if everyone agrees.
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Robin
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 6:02 PM, Kevin Gross <kevin.gross at avanw.com <mailto:kevin.gross at avanw.com>> wrote:
>>> I think, as a first step, we're looking to rebuild the content on the site before we were hacked. There's a good copy on the Wayback machine - https://web.archive.org/web/20170201231348/http://www.music-loudness.com/ <https://web.archive.org/web/20170201231348/http://www.music-loudness.com/>
>>> 
>>> We did not have a news section before. If we do add one I think it is likely to be updated just a few times a year.
>>> 
>>> We did have a weblinks section with some reasonable content. We should probably review that to make sure it is still reasonable and to address any link rot issues.
>>> 
>>> One piece of content we should add (to the papers section) is a copy of Eelco's Tidal paper - https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM <https://octo.hku.nl/octo/repository/getfile?id=qLlZPGSVXFM>
>>> 
>>> Maybe a website-based PDF viewer is a good idea. Most browsers have this capability now. For this reason, I think a simple link to a PDF is adequate.
>>> 
>>> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 2:48 PM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com <mailto:bobkatz at digido.com>> wrote:
>>> I got five responses immediately on facebook. The winner I think is Robin Reumers. He's willing to do it for free. I have to see if that includes maintenance and security. I endorse Robin 1000%. He knows everything about everything. He was my assistant for two years, general manager of two SAE schools, is now a founder of Abbey Road Institute, has founded a plugin company and was chief operating officer of Galaxy Studios. I got him the job at Galaxy! 
>>> 
>>> In fact,  Robin is visiting here this weekend so we could discuss this. I'll keep you informed. 
>>> 
>>> Best
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more to see here. 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> On Nov 14, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com <mailto:bobkatz at digido.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I posted on my FB page.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Kevin's idea about depending on backups to deal with security has some merit because it's going to be a largely static site. 
>>>> 
>>>> The thing is if a hack happens then you need the expert to keep it from happening again. And that's where it gets costly. Reloading from a backup is all well and good but where do you go from there when it gets hacked?  
>>>> 
>>>> Here's my post: 
>>>> 
>>>> Any website developers willing to watch over a non-profit audio-related educational site for a yearly honorarium?  We might put your name on the page if it's helpful. 
>>>> 
>>>> Kevin Gross, Eelco Grimm, Bob Ludwig, Ian Shepherd, Florian Camerer
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more to see here. 
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 14, 2017, at 3:46 PM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com <mailto:bobkatz at digido.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I'll ask on Facebook. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob
>>>>> 
>>>>> My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more to see here. 
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 14, 2017, at 3:32 PM, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com <mailto:eelco at grimmaudio.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Bob and Kevin,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So the problem is the security. My students cannot offer that (just setting the thing up - pretty straightforward work). And no one on this list has time for it. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There are two solutions:
>>>>>> 1. We hire someone to look after security of a Wordpress site on the digido domain. 
>>>>>> 2. We rent a site at Weebly - yes they take care of security since that is their core business. If we accept some "made with Weebly" banners it is free, otherwise I think the €7/month option fits all our needs, which is €84/year.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If we can find someone who can take care of security (updates etc) of a Wordpress site for €100 / year or less, I'm very fine with the digido solution. Otherwise Weebly seems like a nice and cheaper choice. I could even live with "made with Weebly" banners btw.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Eelco
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 14 nov. 2017, at 20:44, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com <mailto:bobkatz at digido.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The MLA is not paying for dns OR for a site. What part of "Free of charge" don't you understand? If you want a prefab, cookie cutter look, go to Weebly OR Squarespace and move from zero dollars (subsidized by yours truly that I'm paying a helluva lot for MLAs benefit). Any amateur or pro is free to build the MLA site here. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Www.digido.com <http://www.digido.com/> is a fabulous, custom site. You'll be on the same host. All you have to do is design. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regards, 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bob K
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more to see here. 
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Nov 14, 2017, at 12:33 PM, Kevin Gross <kevin.gross at avanw.com <mailto:kevin.gross at avanw.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yes, I was proposing an amateur build the site. Security would be accomplished by a good backup that we can quickly restore from. If no one thinks this is a workable idea, I'm happy to move on. Despite potential bugaboos in the fine print, my second choice would be something like Weebly or Squarespace. My understanding is these are a bit more than a Wordpress instance.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com <mailto:bobkatz at digido.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> If you want an amateur to build the site and "secure" it, no skin off my back. There's no reason to pay Weebly or Squarespace because we already have a site and I offer it free to the MLA. , and we're saving money because I'm already paying the fees for the MLA. Just don't come back with your tails between your legs if the site gets hacked or it isn't supported adequately. All we need is design, maintenance and security. 
>>>>>>>> Hosting is hosting. Hosting is not security. Read the fine print at Weebly and Squarespace. I'll bet they supply the site and maybe a wordpress instance. But I'll also bet If you go into the site and start playing with it, then you're responsible for its security and maintenance! 
>>>>>>>> If the guy we "hire" doesn't know how to set up an empty wordpress instance himself, then he shouldn't be hired. That should be the minimum requirement for technical competence. I'll provide the site, the dns and the subdomain for staging, and any passwords or access codes that he or she needs. I can even make an empty wordpress instance on our domain, but it would not give me confidence to discover I had to do it because the guy we "hire" couldn't do it himself!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 11/14/17 11:18 AM, Kevin Gross wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hosting is a problem if hosting with you requires we engage a professional to secure the site. Can you set us up an empty Wordpress instance, have it backed up reliably and give Eelco access so that he can get his student volunteers to populate it for us? If you're not comfortable with this, and I'm not expecting you would be, I'm not sure I would be, we should look at alternatives.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Weebly does offer pro website hosting for $12/mo. Squarespace is $18/mo. Presumably security and backup is taken care of for you on these services. I think we should be able to scrape together the $200/yr required to support this.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 8:41 AM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com <mailto:bobkatz at digido.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Kevin. The site is not the problem! I continue to offer it to the group for free. The DNS is already pointing. All those aspects have been taken care of by me. 
>>>>>>>>> Once again: The issue is design, security and maintenance. Anyone can design a wordpress site, but not everyone can offer security, guaranteed maintenance and upkeep. It has to be a package.... you can't have an amateur design it followed by a pro to maintain it.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> So if we find someone who knows how to do it, I'll guide him or her through the back end and even to the creation of a temporary subdomain for staging. All that is not a problem. I have that expertise and it's already being done for our site. I could set up a wordpress instance as well but like everyone on this list, I am an amateur. So we need design, maintenance and security. A package. Or we'll be hacked soon as you're born, just like every other amateur who sets up a wordpress site. 
>>>>>>>>> Let's not be naive: We need someone with expertise to make it secure and to maintain it, keep all the mains and plugins up to date. Not a month goes by without one of my plugins or wordpress needing update. In many cases security issues come up and have to be responded to rapidly. That is not something you want someone casual to do. I'm very happy I have a pro maintaining those aspects of my site for me, I wear too many hats and so does everyone else on this list. 
>>>>>>>>> I know how to set up wordpress backups, that's not an issue. I am already performing offsite backups using ftp to my local redundant server and will ensure that our new wordpress site is adequately backed up. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 11/14/17 9:31 AM, Kevin Gross wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Can we agree that the first step here is to get an empty Wordpress instance set up somewhere and establish a security and maintenance plan for it?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I have room to do this for no additional cost at Hostmonster. I am no Wordpress expert but could set up a new empty instance based on the web-based systems provided by Hostmonster. I am not watching things like a hawk so it could get toasted again. But Hostmonster does regular automatic backups for each account so it could be restored or rebuilt elsewhere from backups.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:01 AM, Bob Katz <bobkatz at digido.com <mailto:bobkatz at digido.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Dear Eelco. Ultimately a professional is the best solution but my guy is too expensive for us I think. I'm paying around $500 a year for his maintenance and a few thousand for the initial design. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> My site runs on a highly-customized WordPress. We do have Wordfence running but I'm not a security expert. I do know there was more to our security, including capcha, and on my host I am running extra security. I have full access to the back-end and I have space for backup and am willing with our group to contribute to the cost of some necessary plugins, including updraft pro and maybe a few others. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I advise if you/we can find a very astute student volunteer who likes audio and our goals, who is not into cookie cutter templates, who understands PHP and has experience with security. Those would be the economical ingredients. If he/she will keep the WordPress up and up to date as a volunteer then we ask a group can volunteer to maintain the articles. That's all I ask. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I pay for the site and I host the domain. I pay for the domain. I'm more than happy to contribute to articles, but I have to draw the line before site design, maintenance and security. For that we must choose a pro or a pro equivalent, wisely and economically. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Ian, I devised the original site in Joomla and then we got hacked because I was not maintaining the joomla. I'm through with Joomla. I would not advise using the way back machine or even my stored backup (if I could find it) because more people are into WordPress these days and Joomla or Drupal are long in the tooth. As Eelco points out, a good looking site in WordPress can be put up in no time. We just want a pro or a competent geek student to put it up, make it secure and keep it secure. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Are you watching over the back end of your site like a hawk, Ian?  Personally I feel quite a lot of peace of mind having my pro watch over my site for a measly $500 a year. But I think that's a bit too much for Music-Loudness to sustain, don't you?  Plus, my pro would not maintain a site he didn't design, which seems reasonable. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Reminds me of the old rate sheet: 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> $25 an hour if I do it
>>>>>>>>>> $50 an hour if you watch
>>>>>>>>>> $100 if I do it and you help
>>>>>>>>>> $200 if you do it and I watch. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Does this help? 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> My iPhone made me write this. Quotes only below this line. Nothing more to see here. 
>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 13, 2017, at 7:37 PM, Ian Shepherd <ian at mastering-media.co.uk <mailto:ian at mastering-media.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> All my sites (5 or 6) are running on Wordpress. I got hacked several years ago so installed the free versions of Wordfence and iThemes Security and have been secure ever since. Maybe Eelco’s students would keep an eye on things for us ?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Having said that, can we not pull the source code of the original site from the Wayback Machine and re-install it ?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Ian
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13 Nov 2017, at 23:27, Grimm | Eelco <eelco at grimmaudio.com <mailto:eelco at grimmaudio.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suggest as solution? Is your current website based upon Wordpress or some other CMS? We could maybe ask your professional to maintain the MLA pages too - I'm willing to contribute to that.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Eelco
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guys. We have a domain, I've got control of it and I've been paying for the domain renewals ever since we put it up  However, I cannot spend the time to update it or spiff it up. If anyone would like to do the maintenance or design on it, just let me know and I'll send you all the particulars. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The thing about Wordpress is it needs constant maintenance and the number of hackers and attacks have increased tremendously. All the bad guys want to take down vulnerable worpress sites. It takes more than just a website, it takes knowledge and experience. Anyone can write a wordpress site, but keeping it up is another story.  You need lots of good protections, a foolproof .htaccess file, etc. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's why I have a professional maintaining my site. Someone who spends every day pruning all the sites under his control. There was a time when I would maintain a site myself, but I realize that I wear too many hats already and that I cannot possibly beat his knowledge and expertise. To date, not one of his sites has ever been hacked. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/17 4:48 PM, Grimm | Eelco wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What can se do to get the MLA site back in a presentable state? I am in the process of making contacts at tech companies (Amazon, Google) to get loudness normalization implemented in streaming services and am embarrassed to refer my contacts to our website - music-loudness.com <http://music-loudness.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Students of mine have build this site in just a day with a Wordpress template: http://tripleacompany.nl <http://tripleacompany.nl/> (it is for a 'virtual company' that they are running as a group proejct in their graduate year).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I could ask if they are willing to make something like this for us. But we need a domain.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eelco
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MLA mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want good sound on your album, come to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 <tel:%28407%29%20831-0233> DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Author: Mastering Audio              
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Digital Domain Website <http://www.digido.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> MLA mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> MLA mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> MLA mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> MLA mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>>>>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> MLA mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>>>>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If you want good sound on your album, come to
>>>>>>>>> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 <tel:%28407%29%20831-0233> DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
>>>>>>>>> Author: Mastering Audio              
>>>>>>>>> Digital Domain Website <http://www.digido.com/>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
>>>>>>>>> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> MLA mailing list
>>>>>>>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>>>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If you want good sound on your album, come to
>>>>>>>> Bob Katz 407-831-0233 <tel:(407)%20831-0233> DIGITAL DOMAIN MASTERING STUDIO
>>>>>>>> Author: Mastering Audio              
>>>>>>>> Digital Domain Website <http://www.digido.com/>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number
>>>>>>>> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> MLA mailing list
>>>>>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> MLA mailing list
>>>>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> MLA mailing list
>>>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> MLA mailing list
>>>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl <mailto:MLA at grimmaudio.nl>
>>>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl <http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl>
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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