[MLA] Normalizing on Tidal

[Grimm | Eelco]

Hi Thomas,

> The catch is to get metadata safely out of the system alongside audio. It’s not as attractive to use an upstream NormL gain control and then (analog) interfacing to the amp and speaker.

Well, in my experience it takes a real good analog designer to build an analog volume control that beats a digital one. But it is very important that the signal stays full scale all the way till the final stage before the DAC. And that is the main advantage of norm-l.: avoid resolution loss in the digital chain, only adjust the volume at the very end, just before the DAC. Especially with the 16 bit fixed point processors of many android phones this is a must.

But as we know, we have little influence on the phone builders. My main point was: Tidal offers the metadata and the raw audio data to 3rd party integrators such as Roon Labs. That is the streaming nirwana! We should promote that where we can. 

> I agree with your 2+3. In case streamers use a fixed target, we have to convince them that one-size-fits-all doesn’t cut it. There needs to be a target setting at -16 LUFS or lower. To me, that’s more important than if we get the whole NormL enchilada from day one.

Tidal shows that they can do it right in 1 shot. And it is probably just one line of code in their API. But in princple you are completely right of course: we must emphasize that in the original apps of the streamers the target level should be -16 LUFS. 

Cheers,
Eelco

>>> BTW, I’m promoting the NormL principle everywhere, but the ideal is of course to have access to a late gain control in a *system*, especially if interfacing from the streaming device is analog. Hopefully Apple has listened...
>> 
>> Well, Tidal did so for sure. If a company like Roon Labs has the replaygain data, any Tidal integrator has and they are free to implement Norm-l.
>> 
>> In the end that is perhaps the largest step that Tidal set: offering the raw loudness data to app builders that integrate Tidal support, in stead of rendering the loudness data directly in their API (at their own default target level).
>> 
>> I will check with someone who is deep into this streamer code stuff how the loudness metadata rendering in Spotify, Deezer, Qobuz etc is done. 
>> 
>> So it all boils down to three questions for streamers:
>> 1. Do you offer the raw loudness metadata + raw audio data to downstream services via your API?
>> 2. In your own apps: what is the internal target level?
>> 3. If the loudness level of a track is lower than that target level, what happens?
>> 
>> I will try to find the answer to question 1. Questions 2 and 3 will be answered soon when we finished our research project for the TV show. I will keep you updated.
>> 
>> All the best,
>> Eelco
>> 
>> PS Florian: will there be a loudness panel again at AES Paris? I would be happy to present the results of the research project...
>> _______________________________________________
>> MLA mailing list
>> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
>> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MLA mailing list
> MLA at grimmaudio.nl
> http://grimmaudio.nl/mailman/listinfo/mla_grimmaudio.nl